Breeding Mandarin Food

[Connorer]

Didn't know where to post this, this seemed like the best shot

Basically, I have been bought a mandarin as gift, i've heard the horror stories, but i've done the research and i've been ok feeding it live brine shrimp (for now) and i have shedloads of algae on the live rock, so i'm hoping that he'll find what he needs in there (again for now).

My issue is that copepods, which i've ordered of the internet, are ridiculously expensive, at £5 per 100ml, which i'm assuming is one feed. What i'd like to do is use my 28L quarantine tank to breed the copepods (I never use it, and it currently houses about 6 hermit crabs as I want to get rid of them but not sure where to put them). I'm wondering if I can breed copepods, brine shrimp etc. in there so that the mandarin has a constant source of food without it costing me an absolute fortune. I'm assuming this will be alright, but can somebody tell me the conditions they need, what they need to survive, how long they live, and breeding cycles so that i can give little Austin (yes i named him after austin powers ) the best shot at surviving

Thanks

 

[silverado61]

If you've got a refugium you can breed them in there then you'd have a steady food supply for him as the return pump sends them to the display.

 

[Connorer]

I don't otherwise i would :/ all my tank's filtration and everything is internal, maybe if i emptied a bit of the protein skimmer into the Quarentine tank?

 

[silverado61]

Macroalgae would work better. Then probably ghost feed a couple times a week to give the macros something to feed on. Keep the filtration lite so the waters not too clean. You'll need a fine mesh net to catch them and transfer to the display.
If anyone's got a better idea please, chime in.

 

[jay0705]

Alage does nothing for a mandarin. What other fish are in your tank, how much live rock do you have?

 

[silverado61]

Alage does nothing for a mandarin. What other fish are in your tank, how much live rock do you have?

It may not do anything for Mandarin's but it does give the pods a place to hide and feed. That's what he's talking about. Pay attention jay. (snapping my fingers)

 

[Connorer]

Alage does nothing for a mandarin. What other fish are in your tank, how much live rock do you have?

Haha yeah like silverado said I meant what might be living in there, but i've never introduced them to the tank so i doubt they will be

I'm not exactly sure in terms of weight, but i've posted a picture below, there is quite a bit, and most of it is covered in thick algae which should provide the hiding places for copepods - i only bought the top white bits yesterday which is why they're not quite at that stage yet.

2 firefish, 2 clown fish and the mandarin. There's also a starfish and 2 cleaner + 2 fire shrimp - which i'm sure eat the stuff too which might cause problems in keeping them in the main tank

 

[jay0705]

Lol what kind of alage r u guys growing? Macro yes it will harbour pods. Light green covering the tank not so much lol. If u can find frozen cyclopese your mandarin and other will eat that.

 

[jay0705]

U do have a thicker build up, that may help. Might I reccomend a few emerald crabs lol

 

[Connorer]

For what reason? and so do you think i should breed them in the Quarantine? As they are a fortune and really hard to get hold of in the UK

 

[jay0705]

i would add some macro alage, maybe a bit more rock. They will breed. Given time they will accept frozen foods, prawn roe, cyclopese, mysis, ect. If u can gut load the live brine those are fine too

 

[pegasus]

And I thought I had a hair algae problem... lol! You might want to try to get your nitrate and phosphate levels down. WAY down.

I don't believe that 28L (7.4 gallons) is going to be big enough to provide a large enough population of copepods to feed a mandarin dragonet without supplemental feedings. A single mandarin will eat hundreds (or thousands) of copepods every day. I you're lucky, you may get it to eat frozen mysis and something like cyclopeese, nutrimar ova, and flake food, and even these need to be enriched with Selcon additive to provide HUFA (Omega-3) that mandarins desperately need. Brine shrimp doesn't have very much nutritional value unless they are juveniles with the yolks still attached. Your mandarin may eat them, and yet starve to death... with a full belly. Their diet is different than most fish, and it needs good nutrition in order to stay healthy... and a majority of this nutrition can only be gotten from copepods. If you can get a tank of at least 75L, you should be able to grow enough pods to feed a mandarin, but it will still need supplemental feedings. A 113L or larger refugium, along with your tank, will probably come closer to providing all the pods your mandarin needs as it's primary diet. The bad news is that it takes about six months for a large enough population to sustain a mandarin to become established.

 

[chris flaherty]

i read there is a web sight called algaebarn sells copepods 30000 for$ 25 and shipping is pritty good .so look it up and hope it helps .

 

[silverado61]

i read there is a web sight called algaebarn sells copepods 30000 for$ 25 and shipping is pritty good .so look it up and hope it helps .

You really cant post a link or name to another website because this SWF.com also sells items.

 

[mandy111]

I run a 400g with 2 dragonets, they cleaned my main display out of visible pods within 3 weeks, I really doubt your system would sustain a dragonet for long without regular addition of pods.
I am also wondering what your nitrate and phos readings are, you seem to have a ton of algae ? They are fish that are quite intolerant to high nitrate numbers, so maybe take a look at that too.
Frozen mysis and brine can certainly supplemt their diet, but not keep them healthy, you see so many waste away and die even though they are eating frozen, they are also very slow feeders so you have to be ready to overfeed your tank, to give them a chance to eat, as we all know there can be associated problems with overfeeding tanks too.

 

[jay0705]

Now I believe u can sustain draggonets on a varied frozen diet. Emphasis on varied. In my 56 gal I have a pair of green mandarins and a pair of scooters. I prob have 70lbs of live rock w some cheato, but I have no doubt pods are few and far between. I should state the above mentioned fish have been in the tank from 8-14 months. Long enough any dietary insufficiency would be evident. All are large and well shaped. That said I return to varied. I feed frozen spirulina brine, mysis, cyclopese, plankton, prawn roe. I do add a bottle of pods maybe 2 a yr as a treat. When I clean my filter media there are "pods" in there so yes there are some but not enough to sustain the fish soley

 

[jay0705]

I should mention mandy is very correct w the feeding extra however. A good cuc is worth its wait in gold.

 

[pegasus]

I have a 125 gallon tank (473L) and a 30 gallon refugium (113L), and one green mandarin that I've had for 2 years. I have plenty of pods, as I can see lots of them crawling on the glass, but this was not always the case. For six months, I stocked my tank and refugium with many thousands of amphipods and copepods before I got my mandarin. I also had to buy many more copepods during the first year he was in the tank. After a year, he started eating a little bit of flake food. Even though my tank was mature, it still took me over a year to get a sustainable population of copepods. Your fish will probably eat all the pods as fast as you put them in the tank. You will most likely have to train it to eat other foods in order to survive...

 

[Connorer]

I have a 125 gallon tank (473L) and a 30 gallon refugium (113L), and one green mandarin that I've had for 2 years. I have plenty of pods, as I can see lots of them crawling on the glass, but this was not always the case. For six months, I stocked my tank and refugium with many thousands of amphipods and copepods before I got my mandarin. I also had to buy many more copepods during the first year he was in the tank. After a year, he started eating a little bit of flake food. Even though my tank was mature, it still took me over a year to get a sustainable population of copepods. Your fish will probably eat all the pods as fast as you put them in the tank. You will most likely have to train it to eat other foods in order to survive...

That's what i've been trying to do, he just seems to run away from the turkey baster whenever i put it in unfortunately I added some copepods for the first time last night and some of them have still survived, the other fish don't seem to be as mad on them as the mandarin fortunately.

 

[Connorer]

And I thought I had a hair algae problem... lol! You might want to try to get your nitrate and phosphate levels down. WAY down.

I don't believe that 28L (7.4 gallons) is going to be big enough to provide a large enough population of copepods to feed a mandarin dragonet without supplemental feedings. A single mandarin will eat hundreds (or thousands) of copepods every day. I you're lucky, you may get it to eat frozen mysis and something like cyclopeese, nutrimar ova, and flake food, and even these need to be enriched with Selcon additive to provide HUFA (Omega-3) that mandarins desperately need. Brine shrimp doesn't have very much nutritional value unless they are juveniles with the yolks still attached. Your mandarin may eat them, and yet starve to death... with a full belly. Their diet is different than most fish, and it needs good nutrition in order to stay healthy... and a majority of this nutrition can only be gotten from copepods. If you can get a tank of at least 75L, you should be able to grow enough pods to feed a mandarin, but it will still need supplemental feedings. A 113L or larger refugium, along with your tank, will probably come closer to providing all the pods your mandarin needs as it's primary diet. The bad news is that it takes about six months for a large enough population to sustain a mandarin to become established.

My tank's still in its first 6 months so algae isn't the biggest of my concerns, as for the levels, the nitrates are fine and I don't test for phosphates as it's fish only. Plus, when it's swaying in the water flow it looks stunning