treat fish with ick

[xeanliao]

Hi, I just found ick on my blue tang:-( I cannot treat them in the display tank because I have invertebrates and corals in the display tank. I am setting up a 20-gallon hospital tank and have a question:

By removing all the fishes from display tank, can I also move my protein skimmer to the hospital tank while treatment? In other words, does the coral/invertebrates only tank need a protein skimmer?

 

[jay0705]

They need it more then the fish

 

[beth]

The protein skimmer won't do much good with medications in the water or if you treat using hyposalinity. How will you be treating? I'm assuming you don't have a hospital tank already set up?

 

[xeanliao]

thanks all. most of you suggest leaving the protein with display tank. That is what I am going to do then,

@beth, today I setup a 25-gallon tank, and caught all the fishes today: 1 yellow tang, 1 blue tang, 4 clown fish, two firefishes, 1 ywm, 1 randall and one orange prawn gobies. Any of you feel doing both that is redundant? I just thought that display tank wlll be going thru fallow for 8-10 weeks anyway, why not doing a little more and slower on the hospital tank? bad idea?

 

[beth]

The hospital tank is too small for all those fish. Hopefully, they are all juveniles. What treatment are you planning and what will be your strategy for maintaining good water quality? Done correctly, you can treat ich in a month's time.

 

[xeanliao]

The hospital tank is too small for all those fish. Hopefully, they are all juveniles. What treatment are you planning and what will be your strategy for maintaining good water quality? Done correctly, you can treat ich in a month's time.

earlier, i was thinking protein skimmer would help reducing the need for water change. now, I probably have do water change every 3 days, sound good?

 

[beth]

Protein skimmer is not really a biofilter, which is what you need. You don't say how your hospital is set up, nor what treatment you are using?

 

[xeanliao]

Protein skimmer is not really a biofilter, which is what you need. You don't say how your hospital is set up, nor what treatment you are using?

the hospital is a biocube, 29, all the fishes are in now with the same water from DT to start with. I moved some filter media from DT to HT, added non-seeded bio balls to fill the back chamber. I took the advice not using a protein skimmer and add an air stone to improve oxygenation. Last night, I noticed the blue tang won't sleep. I just moved some smaller live rock from DT to the display tank and created some hiding place for her. Hopefull, she can sleep tonight. You are right: this hospital is too small for all of these fishes. I already observed the YWM and all are acting to each other now. But this is all I have. I guess I also need some advise how to combat the aggressiveness in the quarantine periods.

My next move will be in 3 days change 20% water. I am thinking just do pure water to dilute the salinity to 1.02. or, maybe I should just start with the copper treatment first?

 

[beth]

Filter media? What filters and pumps are in the hospital tank at this point. Honestly, it would have been much wiser to leave the fish in the Display tank until we finished discussing so that you can get advice on how to proceed in less than optimum circumstances. With that fish load, I'm worried your hospital will crash. There is no advise on aggressiveness in a tank that size with all those fish.

Pumps, filters, etc? Need that kind of info. Airstone is useless.

 

[lmforbis]

You don't want live rock in your hospital tank. I use pieces PVC pipe for the fish to hide in. The rock will absorb the copper making it difficult to maintain therapeutic levels. It will also make the rock unusable in your display.

 

[beth]

the hospital is a biocube, 29, all the fishes are in now with the same water from DT to start with. I moved some filter media from DT to HT, added non-seeded bio balls to fill the back chamber. I took the advice not using a protein skimmer and add an air stone to improve oxygenation. Last night, I noticed the blue tang won't sleep. I just moved some smaller live rock from DT to the display tank and created some hiding place for her. Hopefull, she can sleep tonight. You are right: this hospital is too small for all of these fishes. I already observed the YWM and all are acting to each other now. But this is all I have. I guess I also need some advise how to combat the aggressiveness in the quarantine periods.

My next move will be in 3 days change 20% water. I am thinking just do pure water to dilute the salinity to 1.02. or, maybe I should just start with the copper treatment first?

I wouldn't do copper at all in a non-cycled tank. Are you familiar with hyposalinity? Hyposalinity will work just as well, wo the hit to biofilter. Do you have a refractometer?

It may be wise to separate some fish into a rectangular rubbermaid that you can pick up at Home Depot...it must be solely used for fish not something you have in the back of your garage or a spare container that you've used for something else. That will take some of stress off the bioload on single tank, and reduce risk of problems for fish. Problem with this, though, is that you can really see the fish too well to assess how they are progressing.

 

[xeanliao]

You don't want live rock in your hospital tank. I use pieces PVC pipe for the fish to hide in. The rock will absorb the copper making it difficult to maintain therapeutic levels. It will also make the rock unusable in your display.

ah, thanks. Let me get some Pvc elbows and move these rock out of the HT before dosing meds.

 

[xeanliao]

@beth: I did hyposalinity with swing-arm hydrometer last year. All the fishes survived but I never sure if the ich was completely removed from the system because once for a while I saw a tiny little cryst on the blue tang. This time, it is either due to incomplete treatment from last year, or perhaps due to a coral I got online 2 weeks ago? (another lesson learned: i need a coral QT.)

Thanks for the good guidance. It seems I jumped to soon. The hospital actually is my bare bottom fish QT. I keep it running most of the time. The return pump is rated at 120g/hr and some existing sponges/form-like media filters. I added more from DT yesterday. It is completely cycled but must not have enough for the new bio load from all the fishes. The chance of crashing hopefully/probably lower than you thought.

Knowing your concerns, I am going to setup my old 10-gallon QT with a HOB filter and move the yellow tang and ywm, the two bad boys over there, hopefully, it will reduce the bio-load on the 29g hospital and reduce the aggressiveness. I think I will be ready for either hypo salinty or cooper in 2 days. Leaning toward to do hypo salinity first. Sound good?

 

[beth]

Swingarm hydrometer is also pretty much useless for getting accurate sw readings. I would invest in a refractometer. Properly calibrated you will get accurate results needed for not only hypo (which requires absolute accuracy to work) as well as reliable readings for a tank that has inverts and corals.

I would still use refract and go with hypo. Your QT is not stable. You can place one on order thru internet, if you can't find one locally. In the meantime, use a glass hydrometer. They are decently accurate as well and will get you started with hypo. Hypo is the safest route in your situation. What is your current pH and salinity in the hospital?

How big are your fish? Obviously, smallest fish in the 10 gal. I'm actually going to say that you can add some LR in your hospital as long as you haven't started treatment. That will help out with establishing the biofilter and perhap keep that in there for a few days, THEN start treatment. With hypo you can leave the rock in (as long as it's just a few pieces of rubble rock, sm rock). You can also add about a cup of your sand from your display.

When you do water changes, and you will need to pretty frequently, use display water for the QTs (if water quality is good).

 

[beth]

I am moving this topic to the Disease Forum.

 

[xeanliao]

I added carbon media filter last night.

This morning (before water change)
PH: 8.
* Ammonia: 0.5 ppm (I normally have zero in my DT, I think this means the bio load definitely is too high for this hospital? I will watch this closer/more frequent.)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 ppm

Then, I started my first day hyposalinity treatment: 20% fresh water change: salinity -> 1.0.20

All fishes eating well, except the blue tank still jumpy and not eating as much as she used to. ywm is getting mellow now. 10-gallon tank is standby if the yellow tang gets too aggressive. (I am still hoping I don't need to use two hospitals. It is just a bit easier even with more frequent water changes on one tank)

In 8 hours, I will do another 20% fresh water change to lower the salinity to 1.016

Sound good? Anything you would do differently or anything I need to pay closer attention to?

 

[lmforbis]

When I do hyposalinity I take maybe 25% of the water out then over the course of the next day or two add fresh RODI water. Either drip it in slowly or add a cup or two every hour. This drops the salinity gradually. Nice thing about hypo is it does stimulate appetite. With hypo it is OK to use products like Prime to detoxify the ammonia. Never use these with copper.

 

[xeanliao]

When I do hyposalinity I take maybe 25% of the water out then over the course of the next day or two add fresh RODI water. Either drip it in slowly or add a cup or two every hour. This drops the salinity gradually. Nice thing about hypo is it does stimulate appetite. With hypo it is OK to use products like Prime to detoxify the ammonia. Never use these with copper.

Thanks Imforbis for the guidance: I will do the my next fresh water change slowly.

Another question: most of the info telling me to lower the salinity during the 48 hours timeframe. Is that more effective than if I do it longer period? I am waiting for my refractometer delivery now, that may not arrive within 48 hours.

 

[lmforbis]

I like to go slow. Maybe 5 days. I usually take it down to 1.007 instead of 1.009. Be sure to calibrate the refractometer before you use it. I also use a gravity fed auto top off to maintain it at that level.
When I go back up I take around 2 weeks to return to normal salinity. The fish have a harder time going up than down in salinity.

 

[beth]

When I do hyposalinity I take maybe 25% of the water out then over the course of the next day or two add fresh RODI water. Either drip it in slowly or add a cup or two every hour. This drops the salinity gradually. Nice thing about hypo is it does stimulate appetite. With hypo it is OK to use products like Prime to detoxify the ammonia. Never use these with copper.

Yep, that is exactly how it should be done. No sudden changes.

xeanliano. Let your pH drop to 7.9-8. Ammonia becomes less toxic with lower pH. You have two tanks up now, right?