QT update and CUC QT questions?

[Storm]

It's been a month since I tragically lost my blue throat trigger and coral beauty to ick. since then my foxface rabbitfish and false clown have been in hyposalinity QT. They are doing really well and getting a little chunky now . Never showed any signs of illness. Thank you for all that helped me with thoughtful advice. I've got my calendar marked for July 5th for when they can go back into the empty DT. We replaced the crushed coral with sand and invested in a Current LOOP lighting/power head system (which we love). This has been a very long ordeal and we won't be making the mistake of putting new fish directly into the DT ever again. It's been heartbreaking to watch the Foxface be stuck in a small 20g instead of the 100g DT. You can tell he's sad. I think the clown would be happy anywhere he is lol
We've been doing a lot of studying on QT but have been unable to find any info specific on CUC QT. We have only been able to find info on acclimating them. I've heard they should be QT'd because they could have a parasite hitchhiking in/on their shell. When it comes time to get a CUC, we would like to do it right. Some CUC like to burrow in sand, so how do you QT them when you have a clean bottom tank? Any suggestions on a safe CUC for a noobie that really doesn't want to hurt her fish ever again?

 

[lmforbis]

I buy my cuc from a vendor that ha s no fish, so the risk of no QT is minimal..

 

[beth]

For ich, you really only need to worry about hard shelled inverts that have been exposed to fish tank water, such as a crab or snail or even a stony coral. Ich will not rest directly on the body of an invert but it certainly will on it's shell or rock.

Why so long in QT? How big is the foxface? How are you preping your DT for the addition of new fish? Are you using live sand, live rock? You shouldn't really clean the sand and certainly never the bottom of it. That is a good way to crash your tank. The idea is to set up a sandbed system that can do the job; unless you have a strictly fish-only tank which it doesn't sound like it since you're asking about CUC.

 

[Storm]

Full disclosure... We have been doing freshwater for decades. We were told by LFS that there was no real difference between the two other than keeping the saltwater at 1.021. We followed their directions and cycled our tank for 6 wks. We were then told we could add up to 7 fish and a clean up crew ie: CUC. We then bought 4 fish - blue throat trigger, clown with anenome, coral beauty and foxface rabbitfish. All were added to the 100g DT after acclimation. Turned out the trigger was infected with ICK, which I had help identifying on this forum. We lost the trigger and coral beauty but were able to save the rest. The fish have been in QT since mid April and are getting fat and sassy. The false clown is approx. 2 in and the foxface is approx. 3 in. The anemone has remained in the DT and with a lot of studying, we have managed to keep it from bleaching so far and it seems to be ok, other than he is still traveling a bit. We are keeping the DT fishless for 72 days on advice from this forum because we had had the infected fish in it at the beginning, to be on the safe side. We didn't like the look of the crushed coral we bought at the LFS and had heard a lot of bad about it since so we used the this time to change from that to sand. I added a pic of before the coral base rock was added. the large coral piece in the center is not in the display anymore and the other coral pieces are in the center and the new white rock is where the coral use to be. This is what is going on with the DT
100 g tank w/ Red Sea salt at 1.025
80lbs Nature's Ocean White Bio-Activ Aragonite sand
Red Oct 100 hob protein skimmer
Current LOOP Marine LED w/ Power head
40lb Natures Ocean Coral base rock - cured
40lb plum colored manmade liverock pieces impregnated with bio from LFS
Some dead coral pieces we bought at the LFS - cured
Finnex titanium heating system at 78 degrees
We have 20g QT tank with heater, pvc and foam filter plus a pharmacy of meds now too... Prozipro, general cure, Ich X, Metroplex, Focus, Kanaplex, etc. May be overkill but we want to be prepared for anything.

Any other advice on what we need to do or get would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Storm]

btw... the air stones are gone and I forgot to list the filter system. It is an Eheim canister setup

 

[beth]

Another month and half is a long time to keep fish in a 20 gal, when they've already been in there for a month. You mention several meds but don't say if you've used any? Also, size of foxface? In hindsight, you could have done hyposalinity in the QT and the fish would have been ready to go into the DT by now. You can still do this and still be done before July as long as no ich shows up. A link to the procedure is below.

https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/c/index.php/articles/content/hyposalinity.100

What are you feeding your DT in the meantime? To keep live rock and live sand alive you need to provide it with a food source. Usually this is fish food but since you don't have fish in there what are you doing with the DT tank?

If you have access to a local fish store that specializes in marine tanks, that would be a better choice then a generalized pet shop. If that isn't available to your satisfaction, don't overlook reputable online stores that specialize in saltwater aquaria. As for CUC, as Imforbis mentions above, it's a good idea to find a vendor who excersize safe QT practices, particularly when it comes to inverts such as CUCs and even live rock, etc. Obviously the advise you were given at the store has cost you dearly. Aside from that the learning process for marine aquaria keeping takes a good deal of time and effort and your best sources, in my exp., is from experienced hobbyists, marine resource book references, and a keen willingness and interest in learning. The internet has a good deal of info along with various opinions on how to do things. Following advise however, is best when you weigh the options after your own thorough study of the matter.

 

[Storm]

I did hypo with these fish in the QT and I've started bringing the salinity back up gradually as of Monday. They should be at the same salinity as the DT by next Wed. I'm sorry I didn't include the med treatment in my post. I was trying to not be redundant cuz I had mentioned it in my previous thread and figured y'all get enough repetition as it is. I treated with ParaGuard and metroplex/focus/garlicguard. It's been two weeks since they have had any meds and have shown no signs of any ailments. They look great on the outside and their poo has been normal the past couple weeks... the foxface had transparent stringy poo and that has since been gone for two straight weeks. Besides the bio sand, we have fed the tank with a piece of raw shrimp... I just checked the perameters on the DT this morning. zero ammonia/nitrites and 5. nitrates. The salinity is 1.024 as per our refractometer. Temp is 78. We also have a RO/DI system w/ double membrane because our water is so hard here and to save on waste. And I test the RO/DI water with the TDS meter every time before I mix.
We don't have a local LFS, we have to drive a ways. The one we used is not an option anymore. Last time we were there to buy freshwater fish for our granddaughter, we witnessed them taking fish just acquired from a customer, and put them in with fish that were for sale. No QT or anything. Just plopped in, so we plopped out.
We use saltwaterfish.com now. I read the forums here and subscribe to multiple sites like Dr. Tim and BRS. YouTube is our friend
So.... Does it sound like I can put the fish back in the DT next week after they are back up on salinity? Since they have never showed signs of Ick like the others and they have appeared healthy since?

 

[Storm]

Another month and half is a long time to keep fish in a 20 gal, when they've already been in there for a month. You mention several meds but don't say if you've used any? Also, size of foxface? In hindsight, you could have done hyposalinity in the QT and the fish would have been ready to go into the DT by now. You can still do this and still be done before July as long as no ich shows up. A link to the procedure is below.

https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/c/index.php/articles/content/hyposalinity.100

What are you feeding your DT in the meantime? To keep live rock and live sand alive you need to provide it with a food source. Usually this is fish food but since you don't have fish in there what are you doing with the DT tank?

If you have access to a local fish store that specializes in marine tanks, that would be a better choice then a generalized pet shop. If that isn't available to your satisfaction, don't overlook reputable online stores that specialize in saltwater aquaria. As for CUC, as Imforbis mentions above, it's a good idea to find a vendor who excersize safe QT practices, particularly when it comes to inverts such as CUCs and even live rock, etc. Obviously the advise you were given at the store has cost you dearly. Aside from that the learning process for marine aquaria keeping


Nature's Ocean No.0 Bio-Activ Live Aragonite
takes a good deal of time and effort and your best sources, in my exp., is from experienced hobbyists, marine resource book references, and a keen willingness and interest in learning. The internet has a good deal of info along with various opinions on how to do things. Following advise however, is best when you weigh the options after your own thorough study of the matter.

Thank you for the link, Beth. Reading that link just made me feel so much better. That's how I've been doing my QT. Even the Ph part. I've been observing the fish closely and when I noticed the foxface acting weird, I looked up symtoms online and got a marine buffer and that fixed the weird behavior. I check it everyday now... I did something right

 

[beth]

After you bring the salinity to normal, wait one week while closely observing fish, then they will be ready for the DT if they have no symptoms.

Confirm with your vendor that any non-fish you purchase that they are not using the same tank or filter and water systems as fish tanks and that should provide a reasonable safety margin for purchasing rock, coral, inverts. It's not 100% but the alternative is to set up invert QT which in some cases may require expensive lighting.

 

[Storm]

Beth... You, Lynn, and Jay have been so helpful. Y'all are very much appreciated. All have been very informative and not once have y'all made me feel stupid for anything I've done. Quite the opposite, y'all have been encouraging and forward moving. Thank you again.

 

[beth]

Actually, you're doing quite well. A lot of hobbyists starting out have to go through the school of hard-knocks for a long time before they understand that there is a lot to this hobby that requires patience and understanding.

 

[Candymancangt]

I will point out... certain fish are more resistant to ich then others.


Foxface rabbitfish for example will get ich but not nearly as bad as other fish and due to them being venemous they shed their mucus layer often which also removes ich.. ive seen it before... this is partially why your foxface didnt die from ich.. coral beauties for example.. ive seen thrn get ich in the typical 2 to 3 days.. then die in 3 days from it like a flip of a finger

Other fish that are more resistant are all damsels, chromis, hawk fish like flame hawks ive never once seen a flamehawk get ich not even in pet cos infested tabks where they have tangs and angelfish with thousands of dots.

Scooter blennies lawnmower blennies.. certain gobies also never get it..

The fish might get it in their gills maybe but in my observations and from reading online and confirming what ive personally seen these types of fish dont catch ich.. and if or when they do its mainly due to extremely stress but they tend to get over it fairly easily. Im not saying dont qt these fish but i am saying they are almost 90% likepy to never get ich and if they do from huge stress factors they tend to always get over it.

 

[lmforbis]

The fish won’t get over ich without treatment. Some may be more resistant but they all can get it. Ich in their Gills is the most deadly as they can’t breath. Ich is easil treated. That isn’t the point of QT. qT is to keep disease out of the tank. There is no way to eradicate it from the tank once it’s in there without a prolonged fallow period. Some diseases like uremia marinum, once in the tank, can’t be eradicated without breaking the tank down and starting over. These diseases are much more prevalent than they were 20 years ago when I got into the hobby.

 

[Storm]

I think I prefer to play on the safe side and treat all as though they can contract anything easily and observe them closely in a QT and treat. One at a time from here on. I knew better than to get multiple fish at one time and not QT them. But I got overly excited about them and I blew it. Lesson learned. I'm in this hobby for my love of aquatic life. I want them to be totally happy and healthy with the least amount of pain and stress possible. So I won't be taking any shortcuts in the future.
I think Hoppy is looking happy and healthy and I can't wait to get him back to the DT