Dilution - Filtration

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spanko

Active Member
#21
If you take in the skimmate it would be interesting to have them do a check on calcium, magnesium, and some other elements to see if the skimmer is actually taking out more of these than what is the normal concentrations we keep in our tanks, or natural seawater parameters.
 

kiefers

Active Member
#22
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///t/391419/dilution-filtration/20#post_3510352
If you take in the skimmate it would be interesting to have them do a check on calcium, magnesium, and some other elements to see if the skimmer is actually taking out more of these than what is the normal concentrations we keep in our tanks, or natural seawater parameters.
I believe i didd this around a year ago or so. It confirmed what feldman stated in his report about BOC/TOC's.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature
but yes, I would love to see it under the microscope.
I might have given you another skimmer review. try this one instead. sorry
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature
 

spanko

Active Member
#25
"

Conclusions

The chemical/elemental composition of skimmate generated by an H&S 200-1260 skimmer on a 175-gallon reef tank over the course of several days or a week had some surprises. Only a minor amount of the skimmate (solid + liquid) could be attributed to organic carbon (TOC); about 29%, and most of that material was not water soluble, i.e., was not dissolved organic carbon. The majority of the recovered skimmate solid, apart from the commons ions of seawater, was CaCO[sub]3, MgCO[sub]3, and SiO[sub]2[/sub] - inorganic compounds! The origin of these species is not known with certainity, but a good case can be made that the SiO2[/sub] stems from the shells of diatoms. The CaCO3[/sub] might be derived from other planktonic microbes bearing calcium carbonate shells, or might come from calcium reactor effluent. To the extent that the solid skimmate consists of microflora, then some proportion of the insoluble organic material removed by skimming would then simply be the organic components (the "guts") of these microflora. These microflora do concentrate P, N, and C nutrients from the water column, and so their removal via skimming does constitute a means of nutrient export."





 

kiefers

Active Member
#26
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///t/391419/dilution-filtration/20#post_3510362
"

Conclusions

The chemical/elemental composition of skimmate generated by an H&S 200-1260 skimmer on a 175-gallon reef tank over the course of several days or a week had some surprises. Only a minor amount of the skimmate (solid + liquid) could be attributed to organic carbon (TOC); about 29%, and most of that material was not water soluble, i.e., was not dissolved organic carbon. The majority of the recovered skimmate solid, apart from the commons ions of seawater, was CaCO[sub]3, MgCO[sub]3, and SiO[sub]2[/sub] - inorganic compounds!
The origin of these species is not known with certainity, but a good case can be made that the SiO2[/sub] stems from the shells of diatoms. The CaCO3[/sub] might be derived from other planktonic microbes bearing calcium carbonate shells, or might come from calcium reactor effluent. To the extent that the solid skimmate consists of microflora, then some proportion of the insoluble organic material removed by skimming would then simply be the organic components (the "guts") of these microflora. These microflora do concentrate P, N, and C nutrients from the water column, and so their removal via skimming does constitute a means of nutrient export."






So why the panic?
 

spanko

Active Member
#27
The common assumption was the we pay big bucks to purchase and run a skimmer to remove TOC and it is removing mostly inorganic compounds.
My whole world is crumbling..............I no longer have any faith in humanity...........oh the let down, oh the disappointment, oh the buzz kill!!!!!
 

kiefers

Active Member
#28
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///t/391419/dilution-filtration/20#post_3510365
The common assumption was the we pay big bucks to purchase and run a skimmer to remove TOC and it is removing mostly inorganic compounds.
My whole world is crumbling..............I no longer have any faith in humanity...........oh the let down, oh the disappointment, oh the buzz kill!!!!!
easy there big guy....... go take you xanax and swollow it down with some scotch and breath....... just breath.....
I don't run my skimmer all the time because half the time it doesn't reach the cup it bubbles and does it's thing but if there isn't anything to skim it's not going to skim.
Lol...... the humanity
 

spanko

Active Member
#31
I emptied the skimmer cup last night. A lot of brown nasty in it. But now when I look at it I think it is a facade. I am wondering now .....
I am spending money on the skimmer and electricity to run it. I am spending money on ESV 2part to maintain calcium and alkalinity. I am spending money on Kent magnesium.
Then I look at the skimmer and see that the brown means nothing and that the majority of what I am looking at is all of the in-organics I am dosing.
Denise where did I put that bottle of Canadian Club 30 year??????
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
#32
Think of it like gold mining. Sometimes you just have to remove some of the over burden to get down to the good stuff. The article would still indicate the skimmate still contains toc, no?
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
#35
Just thing of it as 29% that you didnt have before. Now doesnt that make you feel better?
Where is keifer with those darn pills?
 

kiefers

Active Member
#36
wating at the pharmacy.
Really tho and seriously, I just can't buy this. I am having a difficult time wrapping my brain around this. I have not done a water change for close to a month in a half to two months. I skim during the day only and then I feed at night with the skimmer off. Tested my water yesterday, Ca. 480-500. Mag. 1325. Phos. 0 or undetectable. Nitrate 5. I have good growth and well............. uhm............ as Ricky from the Lucy show would say....... "You have some splainin tooooo doooooooo"
I am just convinced that there is no way one can "over skim"
HEY JOE!!!!!!!!
 

spanko

Active Member
#37
Do not get me wrong. I agree one cannot over skim. Just did not realize that the skimmer "production" was weighted so heavily in in-organics.
All of my posts thus far on the subject were of course poetic license and a tad of drama queen thrown in. All for the fun of eliciting discussion from others. Seems only you 2Quills and I are about this anyway.
No on to the drug procurement!!!!
 

kiefers

Active Member
#38
Lol..... I know you were playin drama mama.... it's all good.
It suprised me at first too but figured nothing was hurting in my tank so what the heck. Pick your poison
 

kiefers

Active Member
#39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///t/391419/dilution-filtration/20#post_3510633
Lol..... I know you were playin drama mama.... it's all good.
It suprised me at first too but figured nothing was hurting in my tank so what the heck. Pick your poison
BTW..... got the results back on my tank that went to the college.
Several different types of bacteria in the water colunm. They didn't go into specifics but the toxins they relased was very odiferous WOW.
The cyano grew on the petri dish and within hours almost engulfed the entire plate and began to engulf the skimmer sludge. It actually began to grow over it and feeding off of it.
They threw the plate away on accident so I instructed them that I will bring in more and I wanted to see the specimen personally. Don't frigerate or nothing, I want to see movement and simple stain, and gram stain the bacterium.
I took samples from the water line, substrate, overflow box (the alg.), skimmer, and filter media.
The biologist said there were several different colonies so I can't waite to check it out.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
#40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiefers http:///t/391419/dilution-filtration/20#post_3510639
The biologist said there were several different colonies so I can't waite to check it out.
Hopefully you'll come back and share what you learned in class. Will they be able to tell you how many types of the bacteria are actually nitrifiers?
I'm wondering if a lot of that calcium and mag. etc in the skimmate from that system in the article comes from uneaten or pieces of left over food, micro fauna abundance, crustations, waste etc.? Exoskeletons are apparently are loaded with minerals.
Henry, put down that glass and step away from the pills. All may not be lost just yet amigo.
 
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