10g Sump/Fuge

coastie5685

coastie5685

Member
Wanting to set-up a 10 gallon sump/fuge for a future tank.
1. would 10g be to big for a 20 gal tank?
2. any changes that should be made in the picture posted?
3. ideas on an overflow without drilling holes.
4. i have a hang on filter good for a 40g tank can i use this to help me with a saltwater tank?
o and is there any? cheaper ideas.... maybe rubbermaid?
 
coastie5685

coastie5685

Member
could i use the hang on filter as overflow... drill hole into the bottom of filter for drain to feed into sump/fuge?
 
bountyhunter23

bountyhunter23

Member
I have a 20L and i use a 10g that i made. My plumbing isnt as elaborat as urs. But i have more baffles in my sump. I think it works just fine, but an auto top off would help. I drilled the back of my tank and went to http://www.glass-holes.com/main.sc and bought an overflow kit. The also have return kits too. Works Great!
 
bountyhunter23

bountyhunter23

Member
Also there are controversies about using Rubbermaid products. But i have seen tons that use them I use one for my auto top off. The only problem with using a HOB filter as ur over flow is if the filter fails and ur return keeps pumping than ur up a creek. IMO i would not use a HOB overflow, there are too many things that would worry me that could go wrong. But i have friends that use CPR overflows and they all work fine. So its all up to you.
 
kube

kube

Member
I've use a j-style overflow and have never had it fail to start up after i turn off my return pump daily to feed, in fact i think i will always use hob overflows, don't like all the wasted space that the reef ready tank overflows uses up, just my honest opinion
 
kube

kube

Member
Originally Posted by Coastie5685
http:///forum/post/2957095
could i use the hang on filter as overflow... drill hole into the bottom of filter for drain to feed into sump/fuge?

i wouldn't drill it at all, in the plumbing coming down from the overflow i would add a tee and a valve to direct the amount of flow to the fuge
 
coastie5685

coastie5685

Member
Originally Posted by Kube
http:///forum/post/2957254
i wouldn't drill it at all, in the plumbing coming down from the overflow i would add a tee and a valve to direct the amount of flow to the fuge
can u elaborate on that one kube...
im speaking about a hang on freshwater type filter... if not drill into the bottom.. how will the water come out of filter...
its an electrial whisper 200gph hang on filter.. im thinkin drill hole in filter and run plumbing that way... so instead of a siphon method its really? electrical pump driven i guess?
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Coastie5685
http:///forum/post/2957048
Wanting to set-up a 10 gallon sump/fuge for a future tank.
1. would 10g be to big for a 20 gal tank?
2. any changes that should be made in the picture posted?
3. ideas on an overflow without drilling holes.
4. i have a hang on filter good for a 40g tank can i use this to help me with a saltwater tank?
o and is there any? cheaper ideas.... maybe rubbermaid?

I like the set up. Your 10g sump/refug is turning your water volume from a 20g to a 30g with out displacement of course. A very good thing. IMO your dividers are too high. Are you planning on bio balls in the first overflow.Where is your coupling?I would at least have one between the elbows and the horizontal PVC above your valves
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
JMHO, The use of a PVC pipe OF does work but I think limits the amount of surface skimming of the tank water. The very top of your water column is where all the proteins are. An HOB OF removes this thin layer much more efficiently then does just an open pipe. You can make an HOB OF with just 2 specimen boxes, U-tube and a bulkhead.
I would agree with Joe. Baffles are way to high. You have to remember when the power goes out you will have some water drain from the DT to the sump. You have to accomodate for this or you will have a flood. I just don't trust check valves in these situations.
What about a bubble trap? Skimmer?
JMHO
Tim
Now Joe is that a coupler or union?
 
coastie5685

coastie5685

Member
as of now im just trying to get ideas.
not my sump/fuge i pulled it off another forum and brought it here to get some criticism.
i would def make baffles lower and get the bubbe trap. im not so much confused about the sump/fuge part... or plumbing..
now trying to figure out a ovreflow.. i have a marineland hob filter that i use for the freshwater tank. its rated at 200gph.. if i drill a hole into the bottom of the filter and run plumbing straight down.
then have the return pump be a maxi jet 1200 rated at 295gph? no? how does the OF ratio to return pump go? does the return have to be less gph then overflow?
 
turningtim

turningtim

Active Member
If you're going to depend on the HOB filter pump to drain water and then return with a pump... Bad Idea, you'll never get the pumps syn'd up. One of them will always be ahead or behind. Even with the exact same pumps. Doesn't work to much varation.
Thats why a siphon works b/c it will only remove what is pumped into it. You never want to max out an OF. Yes the pump has to pump less than the OF at the tank. Meaning including head pressure.
 
C

cust11

Guest
As long as you have equipment that can support the increased gallonage I would think that the bigger the better. Typical 20g tanks are actually 22.xx USgal and you would end up with approx 6gal +/- in your sump thus increasing your total gallon amount to almost 30g. The more water you have, the more stable your water params will be. You may also be able to slightly overstock your 20g to a bioload similar to a 30g
 
user420

user420

Member
I set it up like this because my stand I can only see the front. I think it will be neat to open my door and see the refugium
 
T

tfolke1

Guest
Originally Posted by Coastie5685
http:///forum/post/2957922
now trying to figure out a ovreflow.. i have a marineland hob filter that i use for the freshwater tank. its rated at 200gph.. if i drill a hole into the bottom of the filter and run plumbing straight down.
then have the return pump be a maxi jet 1200 rated at 295gph? no? how does the OF ratio to return pump go? does the return have to be less gph then overflow?
I haven't done this, but the idea interests me. But, on my hang on back filters, if the power goes out and the water level in the tank is low, most of the the water siphons back into the tank. This leaves the water level in the filter below the impeller and prevents it from starting back up automatically once the power goes back on.
To put a bulkhead in the bottom of the hang on back and drain down to the sump/refugium, you would have to size it so that it never got ahead of the water that the impeller is pulling from the tank. This in itself isn't a huge problem because any surplus would flow back into the tank as designed by the original HOB design. If the power did go out, the remaining water would drain down the bulkhead and it would never automatically restart when power came back on.
But your return pump certainly would restart, which would probably overflow your display tank and cause your return pump to blow microbubbles and possibly burn up.
I think that you could probably balance the return flow with a ball valve to make the system work, but it might shorten the life of a return pump, and
a power failure would result in 30 gallons of water in a 20 gallon tank.
 
T

tfolke1

Guest
tom aquatics reworked their hybrid canister/sump filter(PS3 and PS4) to improve the integrated skimmer. Several places have their old overflow with aqualifter on clearance for 50 bucks. Mine has stopped and restarted correctly several times during power outages. You've still got to come up with a return pump, but it comes with supply and return Hoses and hose clamps.
The hoses are not shaped to fit any other fitting that I can find in the universe,(slightly bigger) but it wasn't anything that a little electric tape couldn't fix.
The only complaint that I really have with it is that "IF" you have a rather bad hair algae problem, the foam prefilter clogs up pretty quick and restricts flow thru the overflow.
 
stanlalee

stanlalee

Active Member
here's my 2 cents. Its nothing fancy like your design but its what I used for my 10g sump (before I bought a skimmer too big for the skimmer section and had to pull some baffles). this design keeps the skimmer section constant regardless of evaporation and has appropriate baffles to help keep bubbles from the display. you should leave about 8" for an appropriate sized skimmer even if you dont want one now. chances are down the line you will change your mind and sump is the best place for it.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/2959027
here's my 2 cents. Its nothing fancy like your design but its what I used for my 10g sump (before I bought a skimmer too big for the skimmer section and had to pull some baffles). this design keeps the skimmer section constant regardless of evaporation and has appropriate baffles to help keep bubbles from the display. you should leave about 8" for an appropriate sized skimmer even if you dont want one now. chances are down the line you will change your mind and sump is the best place for it.

My friend sometimes the simplistic way is the best. The only thing I would add is for the op to consider if he does want a skimmer at some point, does he want it in his sump or out side, if out side he can diminish the size of the area allocated for the skimmer and just leave room for the pump footprint and add size to his refug
 
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