11 billion dollar Chopper

stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Anyone besides me find it ironic, amusing, and a bit idiotic, that obama and all these dems are running around criticising companies and making them stop delivery on a 50 million dollar aircraft. When Lockheed is building him a custom one that has run over 11 billion dollars.
After all, his organization is 1 trillion dollars in the hole, and wanting to spend a trillion more. And this is for an aircraft that is going to fly him to the airport where he is going to board a 747 built to fly him around. (with a c-130 for his cars and identical 747 and a fighter jet escort)
http://www.manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=183344
 
wangotango

wangotango

Active Member
None of the other presidents had a problem with Airforce One or the other choppers that they beebopped around in.
If it ain't broke (and you don't have the money to fix it) then don't fix it.
-Justin
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by WangoTango
http:///forum/post/2939169
None of the other presidents had a problem with Airforce One or the other choppers that they beebopped around in.
So Obama deserves something special?
-Justin
Just like the 50 million dollar jet, they've had this in the works for a while.
 
bigarn

bigarn

Active Member
LOL ... When I saw the title I thought it was a bike.
11 billion for a helicopter?! He should take a cab to Airforce One.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by yerboy
http:///forum/post/2939186
Wow there is an entire US Marine squadron solo for transporting the president and other political officials around in helicopters already. Marine Squadron HMX-1
The stuff they do to fly the prez around is friggen cool. I think Discover channel has an airforce one show they air occationally. It is when bush flew to africa. The logistics involved is amazing.
 
yerboy

yerboy

Active Member
also the 11billion price tag is not for 1 plane its for the research, development, production and delivery of 23 aircraft. Still thats a pretty steep price to pay. Those babys better have Chrome wheels, spinners, flip down LCDs with PS3 and a Bently emblem on the front.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Reread the article. That helicopter program was in place WAY before Obama even entered office. Case in point:
"Lockheed Martin Corp.'s $6.1 billion next-generation presidential helicopter program is at least 50 percent over budget and will need to be re-certified as a national security requirement by the Pentagon's leadership."
Sounds to me if they have to re-certify it, it'll either be dropped, or the program will be cut. Which these statements seems to support:
"The program will now have to be re-certified by the defense secretary after it is determined that the Navy's helicopters are required for national security reasons."
"Such overruns trigger a Nunn-McCurdy violation, which requires the Pentagon to notify Congress about significant cost growth on major acquisition programs. Doss said the service took the first step in notifying Congress about the presidential helicopter program's cost breach on Wednesday."
Having military helicopters transport the president from the White House to the airport where Air Force 1 is housed, and also Camp David, has been done for as long as I can remember. My understanding is they usually send up 3 helicopters at one time, two as decoys, so a terrorist wouldn't know which one the president is on. So how do you want him to get there? Drive through Washington rush hour traffic in a Toyota Prius?
So please don't make this an Obama Administration issue. I don't know if Obama has anything to do with the process of providing the helicopters. That's the Penatgon's responsibility. So go cut your Defense budget if you want to complain about the high costs of MILITARY helicopters.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by yerboy
http:///forum/post/2939198
also the 11billion price tag is not for 1 plane its for the research, development, production and delivery of 23 aircraft. Still thats a pretty steep price to pay. Those babys better have Chrome wheels, spinners, flip down LCDs with PS3 and a Bently emblem on the front.
The reality is I have no problem with the president flying around in a new aircraft.
I do have a problem with the president and the government telling private corportations they can or cannot accept delivery on an airplane they've purchased. Link
Then for him to have an airplane or helecopter having gone from a 3 billion to 11 billion dollar project with it still not being done, while his budget is far worse than any of these companies.
It is a bit oxymoronic
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2939212
The reality is I have no problem with the president flying around in a new aircraft.
I do have a problem with the president and the government telling private corportations they can or cannot accept delivery on an airplane they've purchased. Link
Then for him to have an airplane or helecopter having gone from a 3 billion to 11 billion dollar project with it still not being done, while his budget is far worse than any of these companies.
It is a bit oxymoronic
At least they have an oversight comittee in place to monitor how much is being spent on these helicopters. How many other defense contractors have you heard about in the past bilking millions of taxpayer dollars for overinflated items - $20,000 toilet seat, $5,000 pliers, $10,000 coffee pots....
 
U

usirchchris

Guest
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/2939412
At least they have an oversight comittee in place to monitor how much is being spent on these helicopters. How many other defense contractors have you heard about in the past bilking millions of taxpayer dollars for overinflated items - $20,000 toilet seat, $5,000 pliers, $10,000 coffee pots....
Didn't you see Independence Day...area 51...those are just covers for all the top secret stuff they do
 
yerboy

yerboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2939212
The reality is I have no problem with the president flying around in a new aircraft.
I do have a problem with the president and the government telling private corportations they can or cannot accept delivery on an airplane they've purchased. Link
Then for him to have an airplane or helecopter having gone from a 3 billion to 11 billion dollar project with it still not being done, while his budget is far worse than any of these companies.
It is a bit oxymoronic
I dont see any problem with him flying in the same aircraft that the government has been using for years, and if he does need a new aircraft then there are plenty to choose from already being built.
 
mgatdog

mgatdog

Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2939212
The reality is I have no problem with the president flying around in a new aircraft.
I do have a problem with the president and the government telling private corportations they can or cannot accept delivery on an airplane they've purchased. Link
Then for him to have an airplane or helecopter having gone from a 3 billion to 11 billion dollar project with it still not being done, while his budget is far worse than any of these companies.
It is a bit oxymoronic
I agree you can't spend tax dollars for things that are not needed at this time as our country falls deeper in debt.But a few months back pointed out Palin wasting tax dollars but you fought it was ok.Talking crow now.
 
mgatdog

mgatdog

Member
As for tax payers bailing out ever thing still don't think it is right. Let them fall. Who picks your but up if you fail?
 
saltn00b

saltn00b

Active Member
well this has been well in the works since way before 2008, so this has little to do with obama, and i dont see the point.
also remember, the R&D of a new aircraft is 11B, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL machine. you cant compare the costs of an individual F-22 to the R&D of an entirely new aircraft.
here :
F-22 Raptor Cost
Two contracts totaling $10.91 billion ($9.55 billion for the airframe and $1.36 billion for engines) were awarded for Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) of the F-22 and F119 to the then Lockheed/Boeing/General Dynamics team and Pratt & Whitney in August 1991.
Contract changes, including three Congressional budget cuts and subsequent rephases of the schedule since then have elevated the contract values to a total of $18.6 billion.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by mgatdog
http:///forum/post/2940075
I agree you can't spend tax dollars for things that are not needed at this time as our country falls deeper in debt.But a few months back pointed out Palin wasting tax dollars but you fought it was ok.Talking crow now.

umm if you go back and read my posts, you'd see what I'd said. But I'll reiterate it below.
I'm still not sure how you think Palin wasted money...
But accepting your faulty premise, a few hundred K vs a few billion. Yeah, I'm talking crow now.
Originally Posted by saltn00b
http:///forum/post/2940098
well this has been well in the works since way before 2008, so this has little to do with obama, and i dont see the point.
also remember, the R&D of a new aircraft is 11B, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL machine. you cant compare the costs of an individual F-22 to the R&D of an entirely new aircraft.
here :
The problem is this, you have obama running around telling companies they CAN'T take delivery of aircraft (there is a link in a previous post). That aircraft has a 4 or 5 year waiting period. They bought their spot in line and have been paying for their aircraft for years.
Then you have obama in the same situation, he is waiting on an aircraft, that they are custom designing for a very limited use. To fly the prez around. I'll garentee you Citibank's balance sheet looks better than the federal governments right now.
In and of itself, I have no problem with them designing another helocopter to fly the Prez around.
However when he goes out and tells the private sector what they can and can't buy, while the federal government is dropping a few billion to fly the prez around, especially when he has a pork bill going through congress that would double a record budget deficit, it is asinine.
 
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