120 gal tank

[jim&di]

We're new here and looking for a little help with our tank. We have had our tank (120 gal ) since October 04. We are losing fish every couple of months. They look as though they are being beat up and then within a few days, they die.
We had 3 shrimp, and this morning while we were cleaning out the tank, we removed the water and coral (not live) and the fish killed and ate the shrimp. It was a trigger and a yellow tail tang.
As far as feeding, we feed them 1 strip of natural green algea sheets, and then every other day, they are fed shrimp blocks that we keep in the freezer and then also we give them 3 pinches of spectrum thera A.
The fish we have in the tank are: 1 purple tang, 1 dogface puffer, 1 niger trigger, 1 foxface (venomous) 1 blue Koran Angelfish, 2 damsels, 1 marine Betta, 1 tomato clownfish, and 1 coral beauty angelfish.
We also have about 10 pieces of coral.
Thanks!

 

[lion_crazz]

What are the fish that you are losing?
Secondly, triggers and puffers are known to be invert eaters, as well as coral-eaters. Nigers usually are not too aggressive, some are even kept in reefs, but every so often you get a niger trigger that is aggressive and will pick at your inverts. Dogface puffers will definitely eat shrimp as well as your corals. They sometimes last for a while, but the dogface eventually sees them. What kind of shrimp was it?
-What kind of corals do you have in the tank?
-Do you have live rock in the tank? If so, how much?
-Do you have a skimmer on the tank? What kind?
-What are your water levels as far as pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates, specific gravity, and heat.
-Lastly, how often do you do water changes and how many gallons do you take out?

 

[jim&di]

Here's the list of the fish we've lost since Oct: Regal Angelfish, Pink Sqare Anthias, Scooter Blenny, Copperband Butterfly, Bangaii Cardinal, Maroon Clownfish, Percula Clownfish, 3 Stripe Damsel, Spotted Sweetlip.
Those are the ones I remember... there were a few more.
As to the other questions, the shrimp we had were just the regular small shrimp, not the peppermint shrimp.
There is no live rock in the tank.
No skimmer on the tank.
All the levels are average.
We change the water every 4-6 weeks.
And we take out between 40-45 gallons of water.
Thanks for your help.

 

[jim&di]

Sorry......... the shrimp WERE Peppermint Shrimp.............

 

[oyam1]

99% of CBB dont make it very long.
Regal is very hard to keep.
IMO no mellow fish will make it in your tank.

 

[jim&di]

thanks for your reply. I was thinking the same thing... no mellow fish will make it. I'm just trying to figure out who the main trouble maker is......
Thanks!

 

[gixster]

IMO you might be taking out too much water when you change it. Does anyone else agree?

 

[oyam1]

i think the betta may be the next and last to go....
you are in fla...go to the beach and get some rock (its a must for long term health).
i would also get a skimmer (Prizum pro-hang on) (turbofloter if you have a sump).
do not get any more fish......your tank may be maxed out, and all youll get with new fish are death. Just MO.
good luck
my 125......lots of rock,sump and skimmer. :happy:
PS: Do NOT! get any ore shrimp, unless you plan to give your fish a treat! (shrimp killers)

 

[kaotik]

oyam: that is an awesome setup. Is that stand made for a tank or did you modify it?
jim&di: sounds like your tank has become an aggresive-fish tank. I agree that you shouldnt put any more mellow fish in there as they are basically being seen as food! What are your levels exactly? (pH, amm, Na, Ni) It sounds like you are changing too much water. If you are doing a 4-6 week change, I would do no more that 10-15% each time. You are currently changing 1/3 of the water! That is a lot.
Also, unless you end up putting LR in, you probably wont need a skimmer.

 

[ophiura]

IMO, the tank is overstocked, it is full of semi-/aggressive fish (maxed out on them) and the fish that were lost were incompatable in diet or were suitable food for some of the current fish. I would remove the marine betta, dwarf angel, damsels and clowns, ASAP and add nothing else.
Is this a 4' tank?
IMO, the max number of fish should be the Koran, Dogface, Purple Tang, and Trigger...maybe with the foxface as well. But that is pretty much maxed out, IMO.
In addition, some of the fish you tried to add were totally doomed in that situation. The large angels typically fight, scooters need lots and lots of LR or starve in most cases, copperbands are among the most difficult fish to keep, anthias and cardinals are docile peaceful fish (they wouldn't have been able to compete for food), and the sweetlips...well, the sweetlips was very inappropriate for the set up and most die in captivity.
May I ask, does your LFS readily sell you these fish? Because if so, I would get a new fish store, ASAP. :yes: They sold you totally incompatible, doomed fish

And probably made a significant amount of money.
A skimmer would be extremely helpful in a FO system. :yes:
YOu should be doing a 30% change once a month. This really is important, IMO. Freshwater is more forgiving, but it is really important to do that water change in saltwater and not let it slide for a few extra weeks. If can be done at once without issue (so long as the water matches salinity, temperature and pH), it can be done half and half every two weeks or whatever, but it must be done. If the tank is overstocked, it absolutely positively must be done. What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? pH and alkalinity? What sort of filtration do you have?
I really can't emphasize enough that there is NO MORE ROOM for additional fish in the tank, and some should be taken out.
BTW, it is also ILLEGAL IN MOST (ALL?) OF FLORIDA TO GO TO THE BEACH AND TAKE LIVE ROCK. Live rock is good advice, taking it from the ocean when it is against the law is bad advice :yes:
Welcome to the board, and we really do hope to help you out, even if the advice is not easy to take

 

[oyam1]

Only in FLA. can you get in more truble having live rock, than crack rock...LOL

PS: the stand is part of a built in wall unit.

 

[smarls]

Ditto Ophiura.
And no offense meant, but just to be clear about what ahs previously been mentioned by others in a very gentle way:
The CBB has a very specific diet, that requires a mature tank (1 year plus) with tons of LR (something you do not have), and I think a little research would have shown that it would have died in your system regardless of what you did.
The Anthias and Cardinals are very peaceful fish, and were probably out-competed for food, harrassed, nipped at and basically were starved to death by your other selected tank mates.
Regals, and angels in gerenal, are grazers, very susseptible to disease, and do not do well in stressful situations (ie - overcrowded with aggressive type fish). Also, they generally do not tolerate other similar fish (ie - they don't like other angels...especially when stressed in an over-crowded tank.)
A scooter blenny, very similar in requirement to a Mandarin Dragonette, lives of a specific diet of copepods and amphipods...95% of the time that is the only thing thay will eat. Copepods and amphipods live in, on, and amongst, live rock (again, you something you dont have), so basically this was doomed to slowly starve from the first day you added it.
The shrimp...well in nature a large component of triggers primary diet is invertibrates...ie - shrimp, snails, crabs etc., so asking why the shrimp were eaten is like asking "why was the small goat eaten by the Tiger when they were in the same pen at the zoo?"
I would strongly suggest you start researching what you add to your tank, and start providing an environment that in some ways mimics what that animal requires in nature. There are some great books you can read, and you can use this board to research fish prior to buying them.
Note - We have all made mistakes with our tanks, so I do not mean to be harsh, but most of the items I have detailed above could have been clearly answered with one "search" on this site, and wihtout the starvation of many animals.
Stewart