tank a holic
Active Member
i've done many a plumbing job and i've learned the hard way you can never have too many valves, you may never need them but you never know
I think its a damn good build
I think its a damn good build
125 Plumbing
- Thread starter bencc27
- Start date
posiden
Active Member
Originally Posted by tank a holic
http:///forum/post/3179834
i've done many a plumbing job and i've learned the hard way you can never have too many valves, you may never need them but you never know
I think its a damn good build
No one said the build was poor. I think the OP has done a very nice and neat job thus far.
The fact is, valves hurt flow rate. Placing them in the system willy nilly just cause, will affect drain or return performance. How ironic would it be if the very valve you placed on the drain became the stopping point for a clump of algae that let loose causing a flood? The real pain woul be the fact that you couldn't get to the blockage cause it is up stream of the valve.
Can you please explane why anyone would need a valve on the drain pipe? Short of running a Herbi or a BeanAnimal drain setup.
http:///forum/post/3179834
i've done many a plumbing job and i've learned the hard way you can never have too many valves, you may never need them but you never know
I think its a damn good build
No one said the build was poor. I think the OP has done a very nice and neat job thus far.
The fact is, valves hurt flow rate. Placing them in the system willy nilly just cause, will affect drain or return performance. How ironic would it be if the very valve you placed on the drain became the stopping point for a clump of algae that let loose causing a flood? The real pain woul be the fact that you couldn't get to the blockage cause it is up stream of the valve.
Can you please explane why anyone would need a valve on the drain pipe? Short of running a Herbi or a BeanAnimal drain setup.
bencc27
New Member
I had a couple reason for putting the valves on the overflow drains. The main reason was to control flow to the refugium side of my sump. The overflow is rated for 1500 gph and My return pump is rated at 1200 but is probably closer to 900gph pumping that high. I have tested it and can slow it down considerably going to the refugium side of the sump. I also wanted to be able to shut both sides of when doing water changes. My plan is to shut off the return pump and then close the valves so the water level will not drop as far when I do the water changes. Haktran I'll try to post some pics of the sump. Im still working on it. i'm working on incorporating something I can put filter material in. I also think I am going to make another chamber in it for a calcium reactor. Im still researching calcium recators so If anyone reading this has any suggestions let me know. Thanks
bmkj02
Member
I to use mine to control the flow to my refugium. Flow restriction on the valves are very minimum if any. Example for me is when I had to remove my sump and refugium to redo it. I had to shut off those valves to stop the water from flowing back down. Some people have the drains on the bottom. Then what???%% You will empty your tank to do some kind of maintenance or your stand pipe failed for some reason. If you notice those valves are bigger than the pipes to avoid restriction. A clump of algae. Now thats a problem that should be address before going down your drain. For those that dont do it thats fine but for those of us that do, its better to be safer then cleaning up a mess if you need to take apart anything. Hey whats Murphy's Law.
posiden
Active Member
Originally Posted by bencc27
http:///forum/post/3180441
I had a couple reason for putting the valves on the overflow drains. The main reason was to control flow to the refugium side of my sump. Yea, ok. You got me. In your case, not being concerned with noise. Ok. I would have done it differently. But, Ok.
I also wanted to be able to shut both sides of when doing water changes. My plan is to shut off the return pump and then close the valves so the water level will not drop as far when I do the water changes. ThanksYou do know that the water level in the display is dictated by the overflow box, right? If you have the ball valves on the drain lines or not, the way you intend to do water changes it is going to drain down aprox 5.5 inches of water in you display. The valves aren't going to help you with this.
Originally Posted by bmkj02
http:///forum/post/3180446
I to use mine to control the flow to my refugium. See the above. You got me on this one.
Flow restriction on the valves are very minimum if any. Example for me is when I had to remove my sump and refugium to redo it. I had to shut off those valves to stop the water from flowing back down.Do you have two separet tanks for your sump and fuge? If the return pump is shut off there isn't going to be any water going into the display. Thereby no water coming out of the display. No need for valves.
Some people have the drains on the bottom. Then what???
You will empty your tank to do some kind of maintenance or your stand pipe failed for some reason.If the drains are on the bottom what in the world will you do when a pump or the power goes out? If you have to pull the stand pipe out, no amount of ball valves will help you. If the seal to your overflow is leaking past, then you have other issues to deal with. Draining the tank is the only way to fix those problems, NO? Don't get closed loop drains mixed up with overflows.
If you notice those valves are bigger than the pipes to avoid restriction.You just stated there isn't any restriction, so why oversize? Not sure whos valves you talking about, yours or the OP's but neither look like they have reducing bushings in them.
A clump of algae. Now thats a problem that should be address before going down your drain. Maybe. That was jus one issue. What about a fish? A snail? What about those that grow thier macros in the dispaly for looks?
For those that dont do it thats fine but for those of us that do, its better to be safer then cleaning up a mess if you need to take apart anything. Hey whats Murphy's Law.If you have setup your tank right in the begining then there will be no mess to clean up. If your sump and or refug is built right, then it will handle all back siphon, so no issues there. Where else will water come from? You spilling it?
As far as Murphys law goes, I don't like him and you can't even come close to making anything Murphy proof. Your valves have only succeeded in one usefull thing. IMO, there are better ways to get the same results.
Why didn't you put a proper durso pipe on yours bmkj02?
http:///forum/post/3180441
I had a couple reason for putting the valves on the overflow drains. The main reason was to control flow to the refugium side of my sump. Yea, ok. You got me. In your case, not being concerned with noise. Ok. I would have done it differently. But, Ok.
I also wanted to be able to shut both sides of when doing water changes. My plan is to shut off the return pump and then close the valves so the water level will not drop as far when I do the water changes. ThanksYou do know that the water level in the display is dictated by the overflow box, right? If you have the ball valves on the drain lines or not, the way you intend to do water changes it is going to drain down aprox 5.5 inches of water in you display. The valves aren't going to help you with this.
Originally Posted by bmkj02
http:///forum/post/3180446
I to use mine to control the flow to my refugium. See the above. You got me on this one.
Flow restriction on the valves are very minimum if any. Example for me is when I had to remove my sump and refugium to redo it. I had to shut off those valves to stop the water from flowing back down.Do you have two separet tanks for your sump and fuge? If the return pump is shut off there isn't going to be any water going into the display. Thereby no water coming out of the display. No need for valves.
Some people have the drains on the bottom. Then what???
If you notice those valves are bigger than the pipes to avoid restriction.You just stated there isn't any restriction, so why oversize? Not sure whos valves you talking about, yours or the OP's but neither look like they have reducing bushings in them.
A clump of algae. Now thats a problem that should be address before going down your drain. Maybe. That was jus one issue. What about a fish? A snail? What about those that grow thier macros in the dispaly for looks?
For those that dont do it thats fine but for those of us that do, its better to be safer then cleaning up a mess if you need to take apart anything. Hey whats Murphy's Law.If you have setup your tank right in the begining then there will be no mess to clean up. If your sump and or refug is built right, then it will handle all back siphon, so no issues there. Where else will water come from? You spilling it?
As far as Murphys law goes, I don't like him and you can't even come close to making anything Murphy proof. Your valves have only succeeded in one usefull thing. IMO, there are better ways to get the same results.
Why didn't you put a proper durso pipe on yours bmkj02?
bmkj02
Member
Whose talking about power outage? Im saying about maintenance. I you have to remove anything and dont want to make a mess you can. Like I said before when I had to remove both my tank underneath I shut off the return line valve and the drain line too to avoid the tank dropping an additional 1inch of so of water back down and to avoid drips and making a mess. Yes when you do shut off the pump water still comes draining from your tank till it hits the that point on your box or pipe.
Now for the valve, I dont know what you all are using but the ones at HD and Lowes I dont see any restrictions on it when its open. Take a look at a new one before installing and you can see when its open there is like no restriction. Its not a big deal to have. If it works for you than kudos to you.
Yes I have to tanks below so with one of the drains I control the flow to the refugium.
Now here is another thing. I have 2 x 2" drain lines so for something clogging it I dont see how . Maybe for the ones that have smaller lines then
. This is what works for me. I really dont see any harm in doing it. If you dont that is fine but if you do then its easier for any kind of maintenance especially for your DIY'ers that are experimenting with different things.
I see your point Posiden and I am not disputing your view but I believe there is another angle to view here.
Now for the valve, I dont know what you all are using but the ones at HD and Lowes I dont see any restrictions on it when its open. Take a look at a new one before installing and you can see when its open there is like no restriction. Its not a big deal to have. If it works for you than kudos to you.
Yes I have to tanks below so with one of the drains I control the flow to the refugium.
Now here is another thing. I have 2 x 2" drain lines so for something clogging it I dont see how . Maybe for the ones that have smaller lines then
I see your point Posiden and I am not disputing your view but I believe there is another angle to view here.
tank a holic
Active Member
I digress
you may not need them, but they're there already.
no reason to cut them out
either way you look at it good build
you may not need them, but they're there already.
no reason to cut them out
either way you look at it good build
bencc27
New Member
Thanks for all the comments everyone. Posiden, yea Im aware the overlow box dicatates the water level in the tank. My thought was when I shut off the return pump for water changes the water level will then drop to the lowest point of the overflow box. This is about 1 1/2 inches. By shutting these valves it will stop it from dropping that 1 1/2 inches. Its not a lot but I have had tanks in the past that when I would do water changes some of the highest corals and rocks would be really close to being out of the water. This 1 1/2 inches may make a difference.
bmkj02
Member
Originally Posted by bencc27
http:///forum/post/3181221
Thanks for all the comments everyone. Posiden, yea Im aware the overlow box dicatates the water level in the tank. My thought was when I shut off the return pump for water changes the water level will then drop to the lowest point of the overflow box. This is about 1 1/2 inches. By shutting these valves it will stop it from dropping that 1 1/2 inches. Its not a lot but I have had tanks in the past that when I would do water changes some of the highest corals and rocks would be really close to being out of the water. This 1 1/2 inches may make a difference.
That was the point I was trying to get across but I guess I wasnt saying it right. 1 1/2 inches can be a little or a lot depending on the size of the tank. Thats a lot of water for my 125. I have had to use those valves twice cause of having to move the sump and such. Posiden is correct on the way his view which I am not arguing but they are other factors.
http:///forum/post/3181221
Thanks for all the comments everyone. Posiden, yea Im aware the overlow box dicatates the water level in the tank. My thought was when I shut off the return pump for water changes the water level will then drop to the lowest point of the overflow box. This is about 1 1/2 inches. By shutting these valves it will stop it from dropping that 1 1/2 inches. Its not a lot but I have had tanks in the past that when I would do water changes some of the highest corals and rocks would be really close to being out of the water. This 1 1/2 inches may make a difference.
That was the point I was trying to get across but I guess I wasnt saying it right. 1 1/2 inches can be a little or a lot depending on the size of the tank. Thats a lot of water for my 125. I have had to use those valves twice cause of having to move the sump and such. Posiden is correct on the way his view which I am not arguing but they are other factors.
posiden
Active Member
Originally Posted by bmkj02
http:///forum/post/3181025
Whose talking about power outage? Im saying about maintenance. I you have to remove anything and dont want to make a mess you can. Like I said before when I had to remove both my tank underneath I shut off the return line valve and the drain line too to avoid the tank dropping an additional 1inch of so of water back down and to avoid drips and making a mess. Yes when you do shut off the pump water still comes draining from your tank till it hits the that point on your box or pipe. Can your sump and refugium handle all of the back siphon?
Now for the valve, I dont know what you all are using but the ones at HD and Lowes I dont see any restrictions on it when its open. Take a look at a new one before installing and you can see when its open there is like no restriction. Its not a big deal to have. If it works for you than kudos to you.
Yes I have to tanks below so with one of the drains I control the flow to the refugium.So you must have the two tanks plumbed together then?
Now here is another thing. I have 2 x 2" drain lines so for something clogging it I dont see how . Maybe for the ones that have smaller lines then %%. Yes, I wasn't being real clear. I was in reference to those with smaller pipes. However, you no longer have a 2" pipe on the one to the refugium. You have the valve closing it off.
This is what works for me. I really dont see any harm in doing it. If you dont that is fine but if you do then its easier for any kind of maintenance especially for your DIY'ers that are experimenting with different things.
I see your point Posiden and I am not disputing your view but I believe there is another angle to view here.
Originally Posted by bencc27
http:///forum/post/3181221
Thanks for all the comments everyone. Posiden, yea Im aware the overlow box dicatates the water level in the tank. My thought was when I shut off the return pump for water changes the water level will then drop to the lowest point of the overflow box. This is about 1 1/2 inches.I looked at your pictures again. I hope you mean that the 1 1/2" drop is due to the return outlet? Or do you really have 1 1/2" of water flowing over the top of the overflow box? By shutting these valves it will stop it from dropping that 1 1/2 inches. Its not a lot but I have had tanks in the past that when I would do water changes some of the highest corals and rocks would be really close to being out of the water. This 1 1/2 inches may make a difference. 1 1/2" in your 125 should be abot 8.5 gallons of water. I can understand that you don't want your corals exposed to the air. But IMO, in doing the tank maintence your going to want to siphon some of the water out of the sump and the refuge to capture the detritus in those areas as well. A little here a little there, that should help you with the water level also.
I am sure I am not seeing or understanding all of it either. I am putting dbout out there to make folks question why things are done the way they are. I am not trying to be obtuse and only spout off my thoughts. I am not trying to say there is only one way of doing things. I am not always right. I was proven to have over looked an issue in this very thread. I am not a very polished person. Things come off as me being an a$$. That's just me.
It is just my opinion that, the valves aren't needed with this style of drain. Now if you had a Herbi running, you would have 1 valve to controll the siphon. The other pipe would go to the refuge while the main drain feeds the skimmer section without interducing any bubbles. The drains would be dead silent also. Not that it is needed, but the drains would be able to handel MUCH more flow this way.
I am done getting this thread off track now. I will read any thoughts you guys have. I think we all know my side. Sorry for being a butt head if that is how I came off.
Have fun and stay dry.
calbert0
Member
people are making way too big of a deal about the ball valves.
If they are fully open then everything will be fine, just as fine as if they werent there at all.
If he has a need to close them, or restrict water flow, then he will be able to do that.
There is no reason to be raising hell over the fact that there are valves on the return line.
If they are fully open then everything will be fine, just as fine as if they werent there at all.
If he has a need to close them, or restrict water flow, then he will be able to do that.
There is no reason to be raising hell over the fact that there are valves on the return line.
posiden
Active Member
Originally Posted by calbert0
http:///forum/post/3181484
people are making way too big of a deal about the ball valves.
If they are fully open then everything will be fine, just as fine as if they werent there at all.
If he has a need to close them, or restrict water flow, then he will be able to do that.
There is no reason to be raising hell over the fact that there are valves on the return line.
I wouldn't say there is a big deal being made out here. IMO a conversation is taking/has taken place. I believe we are trying to clairify why the valves are there, and why most folks put them in thier drain system. Nothing more. The return lines were brought up merly to ask what is causing the most back siphon.
http:///forum/post/3181484
people are making way too big of a deal about the ball valves.
If they are fully open then everything will be fine, just as fine as if they werent there at all.
If he has a need to close them, or restrict water flow, then he will be able to do that.
There is no reason to be raising hell over the fact that there are valves on the return line.
I wouldn't say there is a big deal being made out here. IMO a conversation is taking/has taken place. I believe we are trying to clairify why the valves are there, and why most folks put them in thier drain system. Nothing more. The return lines were brought up merly to ask what is causing the most back siphon.