180g build Ideas

[socalninja650]

Hey everyone, So I am going to be setting up a 180g reef tank in the future and I was wondering if I could get some ideas from people. I am going to be doing this build from the ground up (the stand, canopy, sump,fuge, lighting,etc). I was thinking about how to set up the filtration system. I want to do a two tank setup by plumbing the sump to the fuge, but I have not worked with a tank this big before so my questions are:
Will a 30 gal sump and a 40 gal fuge be enough water volume/ filtration for this size tank? I have these available and was trying to avoid buying one large tank. Also what brand of skimmers would you recommend? I'm looking for something fairly quiet and inexpensive. And for my fuge I have been going back forth between an algae scrubber and lr/dsb with some cheato. Any recommendations?
I will be using 1" overflow (I believe draining about 650gph if I'm not mistaken) and a 3/4" return. So what should be the recommended gph on my return pump? What would you recommend the turnover be for this size tank?
Also, I currently have a cube30g set up right now. Is there a way for me to seed to larger 180 gal to quick start the cycle or is there just not enough bacteria in the cube for that?
Thanks in advance for any input!

 

[flower]

Tunze or Octopus skimmers are IMO the best. I would turn it around and have the 40g as the sump, and the 30g for the refugium. The answer to one of your questions, yes it's plenty enough, so you don't need to purchase another tank.
LOL...IMO, Acrylic51, 2Quills and Al&Burke are the sump experts. Also you will have plenty of help when you build your stand too. You should start a build thread and take us through each stage, with lots of pictures as you go.
...I think a piece of raw shrimp added with the live rock and sand from the cube will cause the good bacteria to abound. Any good bacteria you add is a plus, I even used that stuff called "Cycle" and a piece of raw shrimp...works great.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Imho, any tank between 100 and 240 gallons should have a bare minimum of a 55g sump.
I would run two overflows rather than one. If one gets stopped up for whatever reason, the other should temporarily take over. A 1" overflow will not be enough drain power for a 180g tank.
I like octopus skimmers. A diablo xs160 would fit your system well without overdoing it.
A seperate fuge is fine. A 30g could easily fit under the tank. You might want to drill it though, to drain into the sump.
Take things one at a time.

 

[florida joe]

The sump is merely a way of utilizing overflows, hiding equipment and adding filtration aids to your system. Larger sumps are more important to smaller size tanks as they add in the total volume of water in the system. In a tank your size you really only need room for the equipment you plan on housing in you sump AND MOST IMPORTANT. The sump can handle the water flowing back into it when you turn off your return pump

 

[socalninja650]

Well, I would like to say thank you all for the advice and I have followed threads by all three of you, so I greatly respect your input.
@Flower-I was leaning more towards the Octopus skimmers so thanks for reenforcing that. And I will definitely check out Acrylic51, 2Quills and Al&Burke for specifis on my sump.I'm not looking to overcomplicate things. Want to keep it as simple as possible. One question though, I was going to have the 30g as the sump beause if I tier the sump higher than the fuge, and the power goes out, won't the majority of the water drain into the fuge, being that it would be lower than the sump? And yes it would be drilled.
I will definitely being doing a build thread for each component to get as much help as possible but this is going to be a long project which I won't be starting for awhile. I want to have it all planned out as much as possible first. If there is anything I learned about this hobby is BE PATIENT haha
@Snake-I will have two overflows for redundency purposes so thank you for that. Should I go bigger than 1" for the overflow though? Or would two 1" be ok? As far as the sump and fuge are concerned yes they would be drilled. Should those be the same size as the overflow though, 1"? or is it ok to do a smaller size 3/4"? Just curious. And I will definitely be taking this one step at a time : )
@Florida- Thanks for clarifying. I was under the impression that the bigger the DT tank, a relatively bigger sump should be used. I was just unsure if there was a rule of thumb for determining sump size relative to DT size. I will be sure to leave ample room in the sump for power outages.
Once again thanks for everything. I'm pretty excited about this project and hope to get it going soon but will be starting school again in about 6 mos so we will see how it goes.

 

[florida joe]

in Quote:
@Florida- Thanks for clarifying. I was under the impression that the bigger the DT tank, a relatively bigger sump should be used. I was just unsure if there was a rule of thumb for determining sump size relative to DT size. I will be sure to leave ample room in the sump for power outages.
The formula I have seen for minimum size sump in gallons I believe is tank length in inches X tank width in inches divided by 231 and then adding an additional 40% to this total. I believe this was info from Delbeek and Sprung

 

[al&burke]

I think you should go with a 1-1/2 drains, two are fine, check out the bean overflow, pretty quite and fool proof. Once you decide on the size of your sump let us know I can put something together for you with the help of many others. Usually it is size under your stand that governs the size of your sump/fuge. Sounds like your tanks should be large enough, I agree with flower 40 for the sump and 30 for the fuge. Can you drill the tank yourself, it is pretty easy - I always say easier than using a holesaw in plywood, smoother anyways. Good luck keep us posted with your wishes, check out SWC protein skimmers as well good for the price.

 

[socalninja650]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas#post_3514846
I think you should go with a 1-1/2 drains, two are fine, check out the bean overflow, pretty quite and fool proof. Once you decide on the size of your sump let us know I can put something together for you with the help of many others. Usually it is size under your stand that governs the size of your sump/fuge. Sounds like your tanks should be large enough, I agree with flower 40 for the sump and 30 for the fuge. Can you drill the tank yourself, it is pretty easy - I always say easier than using a holesaw in plywood, smoother anyways. Good luck keep us posted with your wishes, check out SWC protein skimmers as well good for the price.
Yeah I will put up the dimensions of everything to give you guys a better idea of what I'm looking at or put up an illustration. I can drill the tank myself. That won't be an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe
The formula I have seen for minimum size sump in gallons I believe is tank length in inches X tank width in inches divided by 231 and then adding an additional 40% to this total. I believe this was info from Delbeek and Sprung
And this will give me the minimum size sump in gallons? Not sure If i calculated this right but 72*20=1440 /231=6.23 with an additional 40% would be around 8.5 gallons?? I'm not the best with numbers either so I might be missing something

 

[al&burke]

Good acrylics and 2quils should chine in.

 

[2quills]

I'll take a closer look at the info you have here a little later this evening when I return home. But it sounds like your on the right track.
A general rule for sump size that I've seen floating around the hobby is 1/3 rd of your display tank size is a pretty safe bet.
The sump by definition should be the lowest tank that the rest of the system drains into...so thats where your return pump will need to be.

 

[florida joe]

The number you come up with is the amount of water that will flow back into your sump when the return pump is turned off. You adjust for water displacement via equipment and a margin of safety for overflow and you come up with a minimum size sump
FOUND THIS INFO ON LINE
The general rule of thumb for the "ideal" sump volume is "as big as possible." Of course, there are some realistic constraints that must be applied. Normally, those constraints are based on the size of the area in which the sump will be installed. I've also heard a rumor that not everyone puts every dollar they earn into their reef aquarium, so perhaps there may be monetary issues for some as well.
If a typical installation is planned that locates the sump under the aquarium stand, then the useable area under the stand will dictate how large the sump can be. When measuring the available space for a sump under the stand, don't forget to take into account any space that will be taken up by other equipment such as external pumps and chillers. Avoid squeezing too much into this area, if possible, as it's best to leave plenty of room to maneuver around the sump. Equipment that is difficult to work on leads to an avoidance of fixing minor problems and doing regular maintenance which, in turn, results in major problems or unnecessary equipment failures.
So, bigger does not necessarily mean better. While the rule of thumb above states to provide a sump that's "as big as possible," there are some other considerations to bear in mind. In the previous article I mentioned that there are many benefits to increasing the total water volume in the system. However, it must also be noted that there are some minor detriments to that concept as well. A larger water volume also means that larger or more powerful equipment must be provided, such as heaters, chillers, protein skimmers, and UV sterilizers, all of which may impact budget constraints on the project.
The most important consideration is that the sump must be large enough to handle the aquarium in question. There are two considerations in this regard. First, the sump must be able to handle the drainage from the aquarium when the pumps are shut off without overflowing. To view an animation of this, click here. For this reason, the sump will always be less than full when the pumps are running. Also, the sump must have enough water in it to provide the benefits described in the previous article, and to avoid problems such as noise and annoying bubbles. This handy online calculator can be used to determine the recommended volume of a sump that will be necessary to handle the overflow from a given sized aquarium.
Dimensions
Generally speaking, the shape isn't a critical factor, but there are some things to think about. The drain from the aquarium into the sump should always be located as far as possible from where the water is being removed from the sump and returned to the aquarium. This will maximize water exchange in the sump and help minimize the amount of bubbles that are returned to the tank.
There will be more to come on this subject in future installments. Choosing a "tall" sump is fine as long as access to equipment inside the sump is possible. For example, it's important to avoid a situation, where a skimmer can't be removed from the sump without dismantling the entire system and emptying the aquarium. So, as a general rule, it's best to maximize the dimensions of the sump to fit the available space while still allowing for proper access to the equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalninja650 http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas#post_3514857
Yeah I will put up the dimensions of everything to give you guys a better idea of what I'm looking at or put up an illustration. I can drill the tank myself. That won't be an issue.
And this will give me the minimum size sump in gallons? Not sure If i calculated this right but 72*20=1440 /231=6.23 with an additional 40% would be around 8.5 gallons?? I'm not the best with numbers either so I might be missing something

 

[acrylic51]

Just stumbled upon this thread.........Given the information you posted earlier between the 30 and 40 gallon tanks....Must definitely agree with the 40 as the sump......
Won't debate how big you should go, but my theory and thought is go as big as you can afford or fit.....Honestly lets think about things....I know there was talk about doesn't have to be but "X" big....A properly sized skimmer; decent skimmer will be a tight squeeze in a 30 gallon tank......You then have to account it's highly possibly that skimmer is going to output micro bubbles.....Then depending on what other equipment you plan to hide in the sump area....That area is going to fill up rather quickly.......
As Corey suggest post more info as you can......

 

[acrylic51]

That calculator made no sense to me, and have no clue where that formula dividing by 231 comes into play......That book might be fine and dandy and good "baseline" info, but realistically 30-40 gallon sump be it separate or 1 unit in itself comes to 1 thing.....NO ROOM!!!!!!!!!

 

[2quills]

The really cool thing about building from the ground up though and still being in the planning faze is that you have a wide range of options in which way you can go so you're only limited by your own knowledge and creativity. And ofcorse, fundage and time.
2 (Did I just say that?) Quills

 

[florida joe]

We are talking about sump not a refug or wet dry trickles filter just a sump plain and simple. What equipment could you not fit into a 40g tank with a foot print of 36”X18”
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas#post_3514947
That calculator made no sense to me, and have no clue where that formula dividing by 231 comes into play......That book might be fine and dandy and good "baseline" info, but realistically 30-40 gallon sump be it separate or 1 unit in itself comes to 1 thing.....NO ROOM!!!!!!!!!

 

[acrylic51]

Excuse me, but in the OP there was a mention of doing a fuge in a 40 gallon and sump of a 30.......Hmmmm and why we're at it Joe....A very typical skimmer recommendation for this size tank would be an XP2000 13"x10" foot print....doesn't leave a ton of wiggle room....Design the sump around skimmer choice!!!!!!!

 

[2quills]

Guys, if I can fit sump/fuge tank with a foot print of 50"x 18" under my 120g by incorporating it into my design plans for building the stand then he should be able to get those tanks under a 180G tank.
If it were me I'd use the 30g as the fuge and elevate it or drill it in such a fashion that it drains into the 40g. A 40g breeder if that's what you have shouldn't have much problem fitting a octopuss or any other space saving designed skimmer into it while still having a sizable return chamber. Just divide the 40g in half, half skimmer and half return chamber.
Then all he has to do is figure out how to set up his return outputs safely to minimize the back flow into the sump when the power gets cut.
Socal: do you already have the 180g tank? If not you can buy one that's already drilled and set up for reef and then just design around that.

 

[acrylic51]

Problem is the space saver skimmers aren't nearly as good a design as the "true cones"...... That's why I didn't mention the space savers which does save room.

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas#post_3515038
Problem is the space saver skimmers aren't nearly as good a design as the "true cones"...... That's why I didn't mention the space savers which does save room.
Honestly bud I can't see how the efficiency between say a reef octo xp2000 vs a 2000sss could really be much less of a difference by looking at how they are designed. I'd actually suspect it should be the other way around. Less resistance against the pump between the base and the cup was supposed to increase performance I thought. For whatever reason they charge more money for these space savers even though I can't see where there should be any real increase in cost to manufacture the two. But who knows...
Most reports I've seen on the subject was that people were generally happy with their performance. But the good thing is that if he were to use a 40g breeder as a sump/return tank then there shouldn't be any reason why he couldn't fit either style in there.
The SSS stands for Super Sump Saver. This model incorporates all the same benefits of our Super Reef XP design but has the pump built into the bottom of the skimmer which allows for a much smaller footprint inside the sump. The XP cone design puts very little back pressure on the pump because there is little resistance from the base of the skimmer all the way up to the collection cup. Less resistance means more skimming ability for the pump to work at its maximum output. When space is limited look to our SSS models.

 

[acrylic51]

No I was actually shocked when I read about the noted performance difference between the 2 skimmers.....Also there's a difference in rating capacities as well.....So there is a difference somewhere along the line.....