180g build Ideas

[florida joe]

Your excused it seems in your post number 12 you are agreeing with the op that the sump should be 40g which is the dimensions I gave your foot print of 13”X10” for a skimmer in a tank with a foot print of 36’X18” seems like there is some wiggle room and while we are at it there is also the possibility of putting the skimmer outside the sump
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas#post_3515016
Excuse me, but in the OP there was a mention of doing a fuge in a 40 gallon and sump of a 30.......Hmmmm and why we're at it Joe....A very typical skimmer recommendation for this size tank would be an XP2000 13"x10" foot print....doesn't leave a ton of wiggle room....Design the sump around skimmer choice!!!!!!!
Quote:

 

[2quills]

Actually the o.p. initially was talking about using the 40g as the fuge. But it sounds like we all agree that if he wants to use these two sized tanks for the system then we'd all 3 go with the 40g as the sump/skimmer tank and then use the 30g for the fuge. That way he has options for skimmer size?
That is, if his 40g is actually of breeder dimensions. If it's not then we're all just flapping our jaws lol.

 

[socalninja650]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas#post_3514883
I'll take a closer look at the info you have here a little later this evening when I return home. But it sounds like your on the right track.
A general rule for sump size that I've seen floating around the hobby is 1/3 rd of your display tank size is a pretty safe bet.
The sump by definition should be the lowest tank that the rest of the system drains into...so thats where your return pump will need to be.
Thanks for the input.So with this in mind would it not be a good idea to have this kind of system setup, with the sump tank tiered higher than the fuge tank?

 

[socalninja650]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas#post_3515022
Guys, if I can fit sump/fuge tank with a foot print of 50"x 18" under my 120g by incorporating it into my design plans for building the stand then he should be able to get those tanks under a 180G tank.
If it were me I'd use the 30g as the fuge and elevate it or drill it in such a fashion that it drains into the 40g. A 40g breeder if that's what you have shouldn't have much problem fitting a octopuss or any other space saving designed skimmer into it while still having a sizable return chamber. Just divide the 40g in half, half skimmer and half return chamber.
Then all he has to do is figure out how to set up his return outputs safely to minimize the back flow into the sump when the power gets cut.
Socal: do you already have the 180g tank? If not you can buy one that's already drilled and set up for reef and then just design around that.
Yes I already have it and its not drilled yet. The dimenstions are 72Lx20wx23h . The dimensions of the other tanks that I was going to use for the sump/fuge are : 30Lx12.25wx18.75h and 36.25Lx18wx16h. These are not drilled either.

 

[socalninja650]

Sooooo...I just ran another calculation annnndddd...not 180g...looks like its only 150g

I should have double checked that before making the post guys. Sorry about that.

.
So it looks like I'll be doing two vertical overflows for this tank to get the flow I'm looking for. Going to go with 2-1" overflows which should give me about 600gph. Just need to make sure the bottom of my tank is not tempered . And from what I'm hearing the sump should be the larger of the two tanks, which needs to be able to hold the excess water draining from the tank and big enough to hold the skimmer?

 

[florida joe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalninja650 http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas/20#post_3515074
Sooooo...I just ran another calculation annnndddd...not 180g...looks like its only 150g

I should have double checked that before making the post guys. Sorry about that.

.
So it looks like I'll be doing two vertical overflows for this tank to get the flow I'm looking for. Going to go with 2-1" overflows which should give me about 600gph. Just need to make sure the bottom of my tank is not tempered . And from what I'm hearing the sump should be the larger of the two tanks, which needs to be able to hold the excess water draining from the tank and big enough to hold the skimmer?
Just a note please remember your overflow rate is predicated on the return pump gph, and the return pump MUST be rated at less gph then the return
Quote:
And from what I'm hearing the sump should be the larger of the two tanks, which needs to be able to hold the excess water draining from the tank and big enough to hold the skimmer?
yes and once again remember you can set up the skimmer out side the sump

 

[socalninja650]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas/20#post_3515099
Just a note please remember your overflow rate is predicated on the return pump gph, and the return pump MUST be rated at less gph then the return
yes and once again remember you can set up the skimmer out side the sump
This was kind of confusing...the return pump gph needs to be LESS than the overflow rate?? I thought that you would want a pump that can produce more gph to account for the head loss?? So for the 1" overflow (600gph) I shouldn't put in a return pump rated more than that?? I'm sorry if I'm reading this wrong.

 

[socalninja650]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas/20#post_3515099
Just a note please remember your overflow rate is predicated on the return pump gph, and the return pump MUST be rated at less gph then the return
yes and once again remember you can set up the skimmer out side the sump
Are external protein skimmers any more noisy that internal ones, being that the pump is not submersed in water??

 

[florida joe]

I will try to explain, but then again what the hell do I know. You turn off your return pump. Water drains back into your sump now let’s say your overflows are rated for 100 gph total. You have a return pump rated for 75 gph. Those 75 gph are added to your tank when you start the pump and overflow the overflow boxes they can only over flow at a rate of and no more than the return pump is putting back into your tank. Now even if your returns are rated for 100gph you are only feeding the sump at a rate of 75gph. Does this make any sense? now if you were to go with a return pump rated greater then your returns and you had some obstruction in the overflow boxes or lines that impeded the water from going back into your sump you could in fact overflow your tank and or run your sump dry.
Quote:
Are external protein skimmers any more noisy that internal ones, being that the pump is not submersed in water??
Sorry but I had to smile at this. The pump is the only think you would have to have in the water unless you are going to go with a self-priming which I do not think you are. The skimmer would not be a hang on back system you could use any skimmer you then set it up outside the tank place the skimmer pump inside the sump and pipe it out to the simmer FYI it is the way I have my skimmer set up. I also have never hear a skimmer that made any appreciable noise

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalninja650 http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas/20#post_3515072
Thanks for the input.So with this in mind would it not be a good idea to have this kind of system setup, with the sump tank tiered higher than the fuge tank?
In this case, no. Since the 30g is a little bit taller than the 40g it will be easier to drill the 30g close to the top of the tank. Then you'll simply only have to raise it maybe a few inches in order to get the clearance for the drain pipe that you need.
Your 150g display tank is 72" long. So your stand is going to be approximately the same length (i'm guessing). The total length of the two tanks under the stand will be approx. 66". So when we look at it this way that wouldn't really leave any room for an external skimmer unless you wanted to nicks one of the tanks or run the skimmer outside of the stand somewhere. So I had figured you may need to go with an internal skimmer but the choice is really up to you how you want to do things.
But if you do decide to go with an internal skimmer then the 40g is going to offer you the most amount of room to utilize one for the size you're going to need. And this is another reason why I wouldn't want to elevate the 40g tank because it wouldn't leave much room between the top of the skimmer and the under side of the top of the stand for when you'll need to remove it for maintenance and cleaning.
Here's in old drawing of essentially how it would all look (drain lines from overflows excluded) but in your case the taller, refugium tank would have to be slightly elevated...

 

[2quills]

Quote:
Originally Posted by socalninja650 http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas/20#post_3515074
Sooooo...I just ran another calculation annnndddd...not 180g...looks like its only 150g

I should have double checked that before making the post guys. Sorry about that.

.
So it looks like I'll be doing two vertical overflows for this tank to get the flow I'm looking for. Going to go with 2-1" overflows which should give me about 600gph. Just need to make sure the bottom of my tank is not tempered .
Most tanks do have tempered bottoms unless they're custom or acrylic. There's supposed to be a sticker somewhere on the bottom pane as an indicator but you may not be able to read it unless the tank is empty. Odds are that you may not be able to drill the bottom of this tank. Just something to think about.
According to the flow calculations that I've seen a single 1" open channel drain line can handle approx. 600gph (safely). So going with two drains surely is better for redundancy if that's the GPH goal that you're shooting for. If one drain fails the other should be able to handle the load. I'd personally like to see you go with something a tad bit bigger for that size tank. Like at least 1.25".
A fully submerged siphon drain can actually handle quite a bit more flow than an open channel drain though. I know it was mentioned early but try searching out the Bean Animal overflow design and read up on it. It's pretty highly regarded for being silent and fail safe.

 

[socalninja650]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas/20#post_3515173
In this case, no. Since the 30g is a little bit taller than the 40g it will be easier to drill the 30g close to the top of the tank. Then you'll simply only have to raise it maybe a few inches in order to get the clearance for the drain pipe that you need.
Your 150g display tank is 72" long. So your stand is going to be approximately the same length (i'm guessing). The total length of the two tanks under the stand will be approx. 66". So when we look at it this way that wouldn't really leave any room for an external skimmer unless you wanted to nicks one of the tanks or run the skimmer outside of the stand somewhere. So I had figured you may need to go with an internal skimmer but the choice is really up to you how you want to do things.
But if you do decide to go with an internal skimmer then the 40g is going to offer you the most amount of room to utilize one for the size you're going to need. And this is another reason why I wouldn't want to elevate the 40g tank because it wouldn't leave much room between the top of the skimmer and the under side of the top of the stand for when you'll need to remove it for maintenance and cleaning.
Here's in old drawing of essentially how it would all look (drain lines from overflows excluded) but in your case the taller, refugium tank would have to be slightly elevated...

This is exactly how I pictured it in my head so thanks for doing this! I am leaning for an internal skimmer and sorry for the noob questions....I want the DT more at eye level so I think I will have enough clearance for the skimmer underneath.

 

[socalninja650]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/394860/180g-build-ideas/20#post_3515179
Most tanks do have tempered bottoms unless they're custom or acrylic. There's supposed to be a sticker somewhere on the bottom pane as an indicator but you may not be able to read it unless the tank is empty. Odds are that you may not be able to drill the bottom of this tank. Just something to think about.
According to the flow calculations that I've seen a single 1" open channel drain line can handle approx. 600gph (safely). So going with two drains surely is better for redundancy if that's the GPH goal that you're shooting for. If one drain fails the other should be able to handle the load. I'd personally like to see you go with something a tad bit bigger for that size tank. Like at least 1.25".
A fully submerged siphon drain can actually handle quite a bit more flow than an open channel drain though. I know it was mentioned early but try searching out the Bean Animal overflow design and read up on it. It's pretty highly regarded for being silent and fail safe.

I'll take a look underneath the tank for the sticker, if it is then a horizontal overflow it is...Ive looked at bean animal overflow a little bit and it kind of puzzled me but I'll do some more research to hopefully clarify it up.