20 ppm nitrAtes
- Thread starter beaslbob
- Start date
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
reef, crazy, kip, and others
As I said i respect all of your views. but to keep with the subject of this thread:
How long would it have taken for my nitrates to go from 160+ppm to 20ppm assuming a) no nitrate production in the tank and b) no nitrates in the replacement water, c) with a 10% waterchange per week?
my point is that the tank was producing nitrates and relying in water changes to correct that would not have worked. the underlying problem was the inability of the plant life to process the nitrates the tank was producing. Therefore the solution is to reduce the production of nitrates and/or increase the consumption of nitrates.
Take anything in a tank that has stabilized to the point where there is constant increasing or decreasing of that thing. Nothing short of a 100% water change will return that thing back to the original value. So although it seems to make really good common sense to do water changes, the effect is to constantly change everything with no hope of returning to the original or at least some stable value. By not relying on water changes you look toward underlying causes to correct the problem long term. And the result is not only better water but things in the system that are not changing each week do to water changes.
As I said i respect all of your views. but to keep with the subject of this thread:
How long would it have taken for my nitrates to go from 160+ppm to 20ppm assuming a) no nitrate production in the tank and b) no nitrates in the replacement water, c) with a 10% waterchange per week?
my point is that the tank was producing nitrates and relying in water changes to correct that would not have worked. the underlying problem was the inability of the plant life to process the nitrates the tank was producing. Therefore the solution is to reduce the production of nitrates and/or increase the consumption of nitrates.
Take anything in a tank that has stabilized to the point where there is constant increasing or decreasing of that thing. Nothing short of a 100% water change will return that thing back to the original value. So although it seems to make really good common sense to do water changes, the effect is to constantly change everything with no hope of returning to the original or at least some stable value. By not relying on water changes you look toward underlying causes to correct the problem long term. And the result is not only better water but things in the system that are not changing each week do to water changes.
crazy8
Member
Okay Bob. I think we are still somewhat on point here. I agree with you that to find the "perfect balance" would be much more beneficial to your tank in the long run rather than basically starting with fresh water every so often. But I have trouble believing I can find a perfect balance in a 55 gal aquarium when the sea has just a touch more water than that (even in the small little ecosystems of a reef you are talking about millions of gallons.)
Plus, I don't have all the life that a reef has. Sure I have some live rock, live sand, macro algae (shaving brush -- love them) and some fish, but I dare not presume I have everything a fish would need.
My ultimate question to figure out (hopefully without killing too many fish) is which is better. To be stuck in a small ecosystem lacking something here and there which would be provided by water changes ..........
or to change the environment of the fish so often that it replenishes what is missing although possibly causing undue stress in their lives.
Time will tell.
And your original point is I am sure just as much about macro algae as over-feeding since I have read many times how much you love it. I agree with both points and can easily see how your levels came down that fast. It happens in a cycle so why couldn't it happen when you make a change as drastic as feeding. It is a good first step I think for people with high nitrates to try.
Plus, I don't have all the life that a reef has. Sure I have some live rock, live sand, macro algae (shaving brush -- love them) and some fish, but I dare not presume I have everything a fish would need.
My ultimate question to figure out (hopefully without killing too many fish) is which is better. To be stuck in a small ecosystem lacking something here and there which would be provided by water changes ..........
or to change the environment of the fish so often that it replenishes what is missing although possibly causing undue stress in their lives.
Time will tell.
And your original point is I am sure just as much about macro algae as over-feeding since I have read many times how much you love it. I agree with both points and can easily see how your levels came down that fast. It happens in a cycle so why couldn't it happen when you make a change as drastic as feeding. It is a good first step I think for people with high nitrates to try.
reefnut
Active Member
Bob, that's a good point 
it would take a long time to reduce nitrates that much with 10% water changes.
But if regular water changes were done, with the help of a fuge, a skimmer, a DSB, etc. then the nitrates would never reach 160ppm...
It sounds like what you are calling stable water is dead water. The idea is not to change the elements levels but to maintain the elements levels. That's why usually when someone doesn't do water changes they add or dose chemicals to maintain the levels.
With a fish only tank the elements probably are not that big of a deal but after corals are added it's a hole new ball game. And the thing is the majority of the people on this site have at least a little bit of corals in their tank.
it would take a long time to reduce nitrates that much with 10% water changes.But if regular water changes were done, with the help of a fuge, a skimmer, a DSB, etc. then the nitrates would never reach 160ppm...
It sounds like what you are calling stable water is dead water. The idea is not to change the elements levels but to maintain the elements levels. That's why usually when someone doesn't do water changes they add or dose chemicals to maintain the levels.
With a fish only tank the elements probably are not that big of a deal but after corals are added it's a hole new ball game. And the thing is the majority of the people on this site have at least a little bit of corals in their tank.
crazy8
Member
Kip,
I sure hope I don't have algae problems, but at least I will have a good idea of where to go next if I do. As I have no corraline algae to speak of now, when I get my lights when could I expect it to start coming out?
Bob,
I'm not really sure that water needs to be "live", but doing a water change does allow the water to mix to the extent that you are not starting from scratch. Since you aren't doing a 100% or even close water change, you are basically diluting any polutants in the water and adding minerals back that, as Reef pointed out, you would be added from a $7.99 bottle instead if you didn't do water changes.
I sure hope I don't have algae problems, but at least I will have a good idea of where to go next if I do. As I have no corraline algae to speak of now, when I get my lights when could I expect it to start coming out?
Bob,
I'm not really sure that water needs to be "live", but doing a water change does allow the water to mix to the extent that you are not starting from scratch. Since you aren't doing a 100% or even close water change, you are basically diluting any polutants in the water and adding minerals back that, as Reef pointed out, you would be added from a $7.99 bottle instead if you didn't do water changes.
crazy8
Member
Kip,
You are starting to sound like you are harping on this
I get the picture and will definitely pay attention to how my tank is coming after adding lights. It's not even so much the money, (but it really does count doesn't it). It's sorta just every time I turn around I am adding something. Honestly I want to see the effects of everything myself without killing fish. I love the advise I get here. If not for this site, I wouldn't know how to fix any problems. I know my LFS couldn't help me -- they sold me that stupid CC along with other mistakes I wish I wouldn't have listened to them on. I am sure before long I will have a RO/DI, but not sure when. Tank is still so new, I won't get corals for a while.
Plus, now all I can think about is putting a 250 in the basement and I would much rather take out a new home loan on that to buy all my equipment . And with the price of this hobby, I am not kidding!!
You are starting to sound like you are harping on this
I get the picture and will definitely pay attention to how my tank is coming after adding lights. It's not even so much the money, (but it really does count doesn't it). It's sorta just every time I turn around I am adding something. Honestly I want to see the effects of everything myself without killing fish. I love the advise I get here. If not for this site, I wouldn't know how to fix any problems. I know my LFS couldn't help me -- they sold me that stupid CC along with other mistakes I wish I wouldn't have listened to them on. I am sure before long I will have a RO/DI, but not sure when. Tank is still so new, I won't get corals for a while.
Plus, now all I can think about is putting a 250 in the basement and I would much rather take out a new home loan on that to buy all my equipment
. And with the price of this hobby, I am not kidding!!
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Crazy8
Bob,
I'm not really sure that water needs to be "live", but doing a water change does allow the water to mix to the extent that you are not starting from scratch. Since you aren't doing a 100% or even close water change, you are basically diluting any polutants in the water and adding minerals back that, as Reef pointed out, you would be added from a $7.99 bottle instead if you didn't do water changes.
As I said it is a hard concept to understand. the basic idea is to allow the tank to take care of itself. There are other sources of minerals, and active filtering in the tank. Obviously, you don't allow 75% of the water to evaporate and then replace it. In my case it is 1/2g in my 55g per week.