2nd clown juvi to die in a week

trillyen

trillyen

Member
well my clown trig died after doing really good for lie 3 days i woke up this morning and it was laying dead
it look like it had some kind of fungus on its fins, but not on the actual body but at the store it didnt have anything on it at all
my fox face in the same tank is realing some kind of secretion it looks like from its spines it looks like its like a clear flimst material almost like a gel in the water, im wondering if that had anythng to do with it???
cause ive seen clown triggers with big clumps of fungus on there fins that look kinda like a fungus for weeks on the same fish and the fish was fine but ill be damn i think my fox face is extracting venom or some thing is that possible or is it like shedding or some thing???
im getting another 1 friday and if it happens again the fox face is going by by!!!
the money is nothing when it come to a clown trigger i know you guys are thinking that, but it really aint the money its that the fish is some thing i have wanted for qwite some time and i will have it unless one of you guys know some thing i dont
my tank will have been up for 2 months next sunday its a 125 gallon i have a 45 gallon refuge on it i am well aware its not big enough for adult clw trig but is great for a juvi, anything else i should know???
i know they have a high mortality rate!!
i also know this site NEVER has them!!!
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
The clown's condition sounds like Brooklynella or possibly Lymphocystis. It's not at all uncommon for fish to appear healthy in the stores. The stresses that the fish endures in the journey from the ocean or breeding facility to your tank is often enough to cause them to fall victim to any number of infections or diseases.
This is why quarantining a fish is a necessity. If you don't have the room/means/budget/whatever to properly quarantine a fish, then you shouldn't be keeping saltwater fish at all. I'm not trying to discourage you, but in this case, quarantining would help us isolate whether it's a problem with the clownfish or your display tank. Since both were involved, we don't know.
First off, if the clowns keep dying and you are seeing problems with your foxface, address THAT problem before you go buying more fish. We also need to be sure your water quality is in order before you add new fish.
Let's look at your tank first.
Tell us:
Your temperature
pH
Specific Gravity
Ammonia
Nitrites
Nitrates
What do you feed, how often do you feed
How much does the temperature vary from day to night?
How did you acclimate this fish when you introduced it into the tank?
Also, tell us what kind of clown it is. Have you gotten them all from the same store?
 
trillyen

trillyen

Member
thanks for the replys guys
SCSInet my water temp varies from 78 to 82 degrees day and night when my halides are on and around 78 when they are off.
my ammonia and nitrites are 0 ppm i will have to test my ph before i leave for work to day i just tested my ammonia and nitrite levels the day before the loss
the gravity is around 1.023
i feed my clown trigger a variety of trigger food, nutraiin max ( like a crushed up pellet food ), and angel fish frozen food with spirulina and algaes in it. i feed them around 2 times a day mostly the nutraiin max the crushed up pellet food.
yes i got them both from the same store
the first clown trigger i got i acclimatted him doing the drip method for about 3 hours from my refuge, and when i released him in the tank he wouldnt eat and he was very week but he was fine in the bag though!!
the second 1 i floated for about 15 20 mins and then added a little bit of my water to the bag it was already in waited about 5 10 mins added some more, and waited 5 or 10 more mins then added him to the tank.this one did alot better than the first it basically came out of the bag eating the food i offered.
my tank has only been up a couple of months and it looks like i am going through a cyano algae cycle right now and i am also starting to get glass anemones i dont see any big pods yet, but i do see the little micro scopic 1s that look like they have tails swimming around on the glass
i am also starting to see little baby snails!!! no coraline algae on the glass yet and i believ thiss may be part of the reason for the losses
i still would like your advice but, i think it may be because i dont have any coraline algae or pods yet!!!
 
trillyen

trillyen

Member
from the store to my house about 30 to 40 mins
plus the floating time, but the bag is really big and has lots of air, about like the bag they ship them in
that cant be it though cause fish stay in the bags 2 or 3 days when they get shipped dont they?????
 
lion_crazz

lion_crazz

Active Member
Originally Posted by trillyen
i know they have a high mortality rate!!
i also know this site NEVER has them!!!
There is why they keep dying, and there is also the reason why this site never has them. Juvenile clown triggers just do not live very well.
 
swaziland

swaziland

Member
flying is a hobby for the rich, salt water start small and keep on trying.Just my thoughts, I wonder how many fish die fromthe ocean to the stores?
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member

Originally Posted by swaziland
if one has limited funds they can still do a salt water tank.
I will reiterate that I have no idea whether or not it applies to Trillyen's situation, I was making an open statement, so I'm not trying to bash him on something I have no idea about in his case.
I don't recall where I said you had to be rich when it came to saltwater fishkeeping. What I did say is that not having a budget to do something as critical as quarantining is no excuse for skipping that step. If you can't invest in quarantining, then you should trade off something else in your hobby budget to get the money. This is a hobby where you are taking care of living things, ethics dictate that you take proper care of them.
Let's relate it to your flying hobby... would you fly a plane without having your engine tuned up? Would you fly a plane without properly maintaining your flaps or avionics and whatever other critical doo-dads are on a plane? How would you feel if you were a passenger in that plane (the fish) and the pilot (the aquarist) told you "I didn't have the budget to tune up my engine, that's why we are in this tailspin?"
I'll be straight with you... I spend a TON of money on this hobby. However, I certainly do not extend that expectation onto others... completely. What I DO extend is the expectation that they will take whatever steps are necessary to properly care for the fish. What burns me is when:
- People try to keep photosynthetic animals under lights that are insufficient
- People fail to quarantine and crash entire systems or repeatedly kill animals
- People try to keep fish in tanks that are too small
all of those things stem from a selfish desire to have what you want in a tank without making an investment in their proper care. That's called poor hobbiest ethics and IMO it deserves a chiding, particularly when they ask how to do it right then decide not to because of budgetary reasons; in other words, they KNOW it's not best for the animals, and they do it anyway.
In the case of a quarantine tank however, RICH does not apply here. I have 3 quarantine tanks, and they set me back no more than $30 each, and people usually only need one. Does having $30 qualify you as "Rich?" I doubt it.
10 gallon aquarium - $10
Whisper 10i power filter $10
Shop light - $7
Hunks of PVC pipe - maybe $3
If you want to look at it purely as a budgetary factor, take Trillyen in this case. How much does a clown trigger cost? Usually, more than $30. If he didn't have a quarantine tank, and one could have saved him buying just one fish, he comes out ahead. Again, only an example, but quarantine tanks are generally an investment in money savings, not just a luxury, optional item.
Sorry to launch on a diatribe about it, I do tend to get long winded. I'm only out for the welfare of the fish and the success of the hobbiest. Call me rough if you want, but keep in mind the method behind my madness before you come down on me about it.
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by trillyen
from the store to my house about 30 to 40 mins
plus the floating time, but the bag is really big and has lots of air, about like the bag they ship them in
that cant be it though cause fish stay in the bags 2 or 3 days when they get shipped dont they?????

It sounds like you are fine here. The reason I ask is that if a fish is in a bag a long time, pH drops as ammonia is expelled by the fish. Ammonia toxicity (sp?) is lower at lower pH levels. When an unknowing aquarist opens the bag and introduces higher pH aquarium water, ammonia skyrockets almost instantly and severely injures or kills the fish. That's why I asked about it, but the time in the bag doesn't coiincide with this.
I'd say LionCrazz has the real answer... it's just high mortality. If you want to persue this course, my suggestion would be to have the LFS put your trigger into a tank where he is the only clown trigger in there (so you know which actual animal is yours) and hold it for a week or more. That way if he dies he'll do it there. They will usually do this for a deposit. Then bring him home and quarantine him for at least another two weeks. That way if they are diseased it's not risking your display tank.
 
lion_crazz

lion_crazz

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
Sorry to launch on a diatribe about it, I do tend to get long winded. I'm only out for the welfare of the fish and the success of the hobbiest. Call me rough if you want, but keep in mind the method behind my madness before you come down on me about it.
Don't take it personally. Unfortunately, many people have to learn things the hard way in this hobby to understand where the experienced person's advice is coming from and why quarantining new animals is so crucial.
 
swaziland

swaziland

Member
plane flying fish kicking off apples and oranges.. just admit you arer wrong and move on you have no idea what you are taliking about
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member

Originally Posted by ME
If you don't have the room/means/budget/whatever to properly quarantine a fish, then you shouldn't be keeping saltwater fish at all.
This is what I said. Yes, I implied that if you cannot afford a quarantine tank, then you should not be keeping fish. It's my position that a quarantine tank is as necessary as... say... saltwater. Would you suggest that someone try to keep saltwater fish without saltwater? (I'm guessing no...)... why not? Because it's necessary. Well, so is a quarantine tank.
You are the one who took a leap to me saying it meant you had to have unlimited funds.
What am I supposed to admit I'm wrong about? Do you disagree with the price list I gave? Do you feel that $30 is representative of unlimited funds? There are high school students on this board who work minimum wage jobs that understand the importance of this investment... and make the investment.
I'm not going to continue arguing this with you. You can go ahead and do whatever you want. I'm going to do exactly what you want me to do... move on. I don't know you, or how experienced you are with keeping saltwater fish, but I am assuming you don't quarantine; you wouldn't be having this conversation with me if you didn't. So be warned... the first time you introduce disease into your tank and loose your healthy fish as well as your new arrival, you'll understand. In the meantime, have your killing spree... I guess.
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
This is why quarantining a fish is a necessity. If you don't have the room/means/budget/whatever to properly quarantine a fish, then you shouldn't be keeping saltwater fish at all. I'm not trying to discourage you, but in this case, quarantining would help us isolate whether it's a problem with the clownfish or your display tank. Since both were involved, we don't know.
I agree if you cant take the proper steps to protect your animals, then you shouldnt be keeping them. with the proper patience any one on just about any budget can afford to set themselves up right if they do not rush ahead. patience is key in this and most hobbies.
but lets not get steered off track the situation is what it is.
I would have to go with the theory of high mortality rate as mentioned by Crazz and seconded by Scsi.
Trillyan, I am asuming your new to the hobby as you mentioned your tank is only a few months old. one thing You will get a handle on over time and looking at TONS of fish is an eye for healthier looking specimine of fish, usually a fish that looks almost perfectly healthy will have a subtle sign of stress if that is the case. its impossible to explain, there are of course the obvious signs of distress like poor color, shrunken stomach, tattered fins, scars, and such. over time and expirience with different types of fish you will actually start to recognize wich fishes seem to act more on par with what a healthy specimine would as oppossed to a stressed one, and these differences can be very subtle.
I agree that for your next juvi clown trig, see if the store will hold it in a seperate tank for a week. also try and get yourself set up with a QT its very important. nothing like one bad case of ich to wipe out $400 worth of fish..
 
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