2nd round of hypo

[janastasio]

Well, I almost made it through the whole QT getting rid of ich process. My fish have been in hyposalinity for about 6 weeks now. I slacked overr a few weeks and didnt stay ontop of the water evaporation and my lovely ich is back! Definitely not as bad as when the fish first went in, but all the same...... So I've got the fish back down to 1.009. Only plus is that I know my DT has most def got to be ich free at this point! Quick question though. I'm concerned about having resistant ich now. Do I have to worry about this? I also think that one of my tangs may have a bacterial infection going on secondary to the ich. He has a spot that has now started to turn pink. When my fish first went into QT I had a clown that the ich was eroding the top of his head and this was looking pretty raw. Could that be what is going on with the tang. The clown looks perfect now after the first round of hypo. Hoping the tang will heal as well with time in second round of hypo. Well wish me luck. I am definitely going to be on top of my evap this time around. Pretty cold and dry here, so all my tanks are really chugging through the top offs!

 

[sepulatian]

Your tangs are going to start feeling the stress of the lower salinity. They are fine in hypo but do start to show stress at roughly six weeks of it. It is important to keep your water quality high as well as their immune systems. Feed very nutritious foods and dose them with vitamines and fresh garlic.

 

[al mc]

Jan...I experienced a similar problem last week and decided instead of another round of hypo to go with ...gulp..copper. I am using Cupramine on a QT'd hippo tang and clown. They are doing well so far. One week of a total of three weeks of treatment. I was worried that I might have resistent ICH as I had followed hypo directions well when I first purchased the fish. Just thought I'd throw that out for consideration. Good luck

 

[janastasio]

I am definitely feeling worried about the lengh of time in hypo. The tangs look pretty bad today. The other fish dont seem too bad. I'm going to give them a few more days at the 1.oo9 and see if they improve. If not, then I think I will move to a chemical treatment. I do already have copper on hand, but how do you test for this to ensure you are in the range you want to be. Do they sell test kits? And do I really want to do copper treatment with 2 tangs in the QT. Currently in QT is 2 tangs, a clown fish, coral beauty angel, 2 zebra damsels and watchman goby. Are there other chemical treatments for ich other than copper. Is there marcyn or anything? Thanks for all the help. -Jaime

 

[al mc]

So far so good with my hippo tang in copper. My understanding is that the only two proven ways to eliminate Ich are hypo and copper. There are test kits for copper, but they are color changfe tests and the amount of copper that will kill the Ich versus the dose that can harm the fish is not that far apart.
My first experience with Ich about two years ago was suggested to me by a local (now out of business) fish store. It was Kick-Ich which is an antiprotozoal medication..metronidazole. It appeared to initially help, but the problem resurfaced.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by janastasio
I am definitely feeling worried about the lengh of time in hypo. The tangs look pretty bad today. The other fish dont seem too bad. I'm going to give them a few more days at the 1.oo9 and see if they improve. If not, then I think I will move to a chemical treatment. I do already have copper on hand, but how do you test for this to ensure you are in the range you want to be. Do they sell test kits? And do I really want to do copper treatment with 2 tangs in the QT. Currently in QT is 2 tangs, a clown fish, coral beauty angel, 2 zebra damsels and watchman goby. Are there other chemical treatments for ich other than copper. Is there marcyn or anything? Thanks for all the help. -Jaime
Jamie, at this point you may want to bring the SG slowly back up over the next week. There are two things that you can do once the SG is at 1.023. You can give the fish a few weeks to recover from the lowered SG then do hypo again or you can try the copper treatment. I personaly do not like copper because if you are not on top of the levels then the amount of copper can become lethal to the fish. With hypo the worst that can happen is that the ich reattatch. Copper is stressful to tangs. The reason that this hypo failed was because of top offs. You said that it went to 1.010 for a while. I would bring the SG back up and dose their foods with vitamines and fresh garlic. Let it stay at normal SG for a few weeks, then do it over. It is up to you though on what you want to do.

 

[janastasio]

I'm with you sepulation on the copper. I feel extremely hesitant to do the copper. I have never had good luck with this. I have lowered the SG back to the 1.009 again. This was completed yesterday. The two tangs looked even worse this morning. They both seem absolutely covered in the ick. Lots of loose pieces hanging off them. By this afternoon it seemed better, so I'm guessing they looked bad because the ick was falling off???? I did a 10 gallon water change tonight just to help keep water pristine. I'm going to keep going like this and just watch the fish. If they appear to get worse then I will start to raise the SG. I'm also going to really load them up with the garlic and Vits as well to boost their immune systems. Hopefully this will work. Can you remind me, how long in hypo? I dont need to worry and the lengh of time the DT has been empty at this point since its been so long, so if they appear to be doing well how long should this hypo last? Thanks for all the help.

 

[al mc]

Jan...Hypo lasts for a minimum of 3 weeks once all the visible ICH on the fish is gone. I am worried about copper also, but the Cupramine Beth suggested has been going well now going on 10 days. One of the fish is a Hippo Tang and he/she started looking better after the 2nd day. The Cupramine thus far has not affected my biologic filter. I have only had to top off for water loss
and test for proper copper levels 2x daily.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Al Mc
Jan...Hypo lasts for a minimum of 3 weeks once all the visible ICH on the fish is gone. I am worried about copper also, but the Cupramine Beth suggested has been going well now going on 10 days. One of the fish is a Hippo Tang and he/she started looking better after the 2nd day. The Cupramine thus far has not affected my biologic filter. I have only had to top off for water loss
and test for proper copper levels 2x daily.

Al is doing the copper right now. He is correct that you count three weeks from the time that you last see ich for hypo. The vitamines and fresh garlic will definately boost their immune system. Your hypo wasn't monitored closely enough. At this point, you may want to try copper in a qt tank. The SG would have to be raised back up to normal over a weeks time. I am very hesitant to recommend this because a week or two in normal SG is all that the fish need to recover from the hypo. BUT durring that time the fish will be bombarded with ich if you are already seeing a huge increase in parasites. My personal thought is to raise the SG, and seriously feed them several smaller meals ALL dosed with fresh garlic and vitamines. Get their immune systems high then rehypo. Have you had bad experiences with copper? Your last post kind of makes me think that you did.

 

[janastasio]

Just checking back in after a few days. Have had the fish at the 1.009, solid. They look terrible and are started to be very negatively affected, ? either from longtern hypo or ich or both. Lost one of my 2 tangs yesterday, and a very old zebra damsel (he was prob about 6yrs old!). Other fish are very sluggish. I'm going to start raising the SG tonight but I think I'm in trouble no matter which direction I go in at this point. The ich already seems pretty severe in the tank and its going to get far worse. I just hope they can with stand it. I'm going to go chemical for the next action. I did try copper once, it was called copper safe by mardel. The tank was only a five gallon, and it was a tang. Lots of wrongs, so I'm going to try and not let that experience judge what the next would be.

 

[al mc]

Jan....Sorry about your losses. Since you said you were going to go 'chemical... I have been happy so far (2 weeks into it) with the Cupramine. My biologic cycle is still intact..amazing (props to Beth who predicided it would be

). While I am still planning on using hypo for all new arriving fish in the future, I have been impressed so far by the cupramine. Good luck. Sorry to jump in on your thread.

 

[janastasio]

So I changed out 10 gallons of water tonight and started raising my specific gravity. No one is this area sells the cupramine. I'm going to have to order it on line. Al Mc, did you purchase some sort of test kit to go with this? I'm just hoping my last tang can hold on until I can get these chemicals going. Its a purple tang and I love him. I'm sure he cant love me too much since he's got a slacker owner who let him down! Hopefully I can make it all right again.

 

[al mc]

There is a test kit that Seachem sells that goes with it. Best of luck.

 

[janastasio]

so I just found the cupramine online and found the test kit too, (Thanks AlMc

) Came accross a medication called Euthanese. So out of curiousity I clicked on it. Its a medicine to put your fish to sleep to euthanise it. I cant believe they make such a product! Then I found a product to anesthetize your fish to be able to weigh, measure, ect. I cant believe the products out there!

 

[al mc]

Jan..In my business there are lots of products that have nice names for not so pleasant applications. 'Sleep easy' is my (sarcastically he says) 'favorite'
name.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by janastasio
So I changed out 10 gallons of water tonight and started raising my specific gravity. No one is this area sells the cupramine. I'm going to have to order it on line. Al Mc, did you purchase some sort of test kit to go with this? I'm just hoping my last tang can hold on until I can get these chemicals going. Its a purple tang and I love him. I'm sure he cant love me too much since he's got a slacker owner who let him down! Hopefully I can make it all right again.
Ah, don't be hard on yourself. It happens. Have you been adding vitamines to their foods, and most importantly, adding fresh garlic? It helps Jamie, it REALY helps to keep the ich at bay while you treat. Be sure to get your SG all the way back up before you begin copper. Copper must be done in a qt that you never plan to have inverts in. Keep the oxygen flow high and be sure to test once in the morning and once at night.

 

[janastasio]

Well, I have lost 4 out of the 7 fish now. Purple tang and coral beuty died yesterday. Only 3 fish left. Perc clown, zebra damsel, and yellow watchman goby. Keeping my fingers crossed these guys will pull through.

 

[al mc]

Did you get the cupramine and have you started it or going with hypo?

 

[janastasio]

I have 2 pet stores in my area, neither sell cupramine. I was going to order it online but then these guys all started dying. I'm not sure if its truly the ich completely at this point or how long they have been in hypo. I've started the process of raising the salinity. The 3 remaining fish seem good, they may have slight ich present buy not like the other fish. I need to get my salinity back to normal regardless of which method I go with. I'll be in an area on Sunday that may have some pet stores with different products. I'll check those when I 'm there. Whole thing is a bummer especially when I had it all under control with the hypo. I just slacked the last few days with top offs, Argh.

 

[al mc]

Sorry for your loss! Hind sight is '20:20'. There are many situations with swf that I wish I could have a 'muligan' on and start fresh. Glad to know the remaining ones are OK. FYI. The cupramine has worked for me in a situation where I either messed up the hypo or had a resistent Ich organism.