2nd try at reef tank

[bambalamb]

Hello,
I found this site a few weeks ago and have been totally
engulfed by the wealth of knowledge being shared. It
definitely changes the way I look at being an amateur
aquarist.
I have been keeping marine fish for over 12 years with
pretty good success. About 5 years ago I tried to set
up a reef tank with the help of someone who was very
good at it. I had marginal success, and ultimately, the
whole system deteriorated to a state where I simply
gave up. I attribute this failure to a general lack of
enough knowledge and poor water quality. I was using
de-chlorinated mains water - bad choice.
Now I have a renewed hope that I can keep a reef tank.
I have a 75 gal with approximately 40 lbs of base rock,
very little (5 lbs?) sand, a maroon clown, blue damsel, purple pseudochromis and a regal tang with an attitude. I recently
tore down my 55 gal (that's where the MC and PP came from)
and am currently storing it in my garage. I also have a 10 gal
that is currently unoccupied.
My question to you is this: In your opinion(s), what would
you do to convert the 75 to reef?
Thanks in advance,
Bambalamb

 

[leigh]

if you have space for it turn that 55 gal into a sump and refugium for your 75 and you'll add a lot of stability to your water quality and have a very healthy ecosystem. what sort of lighting do you currently have? don't overstock. and carefully deepen your sand bed. if you do a search for "deep sand bed" you should turn up a lot of suggestions on how to convert over. and add 40 more lbs of live rock. those are my sugs. good luck!

 

[bambalamb]

Thanx Leigh,
Space is limited, so using the 55 as a fuge is probably out. As for the lighting, I have an oak canopy with 2 URI FR40T12 actinics
(1 white, 1 blue) and 2 more that don't work due to a bad ballast.
I should also add that this current setup is using the same mains
water, but I have found a local source of affordable RO water and
have started stocking up on it. I'm heavy on filtration, since I
combined the 2 tanks - 2 Penguin 330's and a H.O.T. Magnum
Pro System. Also have a blower bar in the back powered by a
Rio 2100 to help water movement as as a Penguin 660 PH.
I know the current lighting is not sufficient for a reef tank, but
that's why I'm asking questions now, so I can get things ready
if I have to cycle again.

 

[leigh]

you shouldn't have to cycle again. i'd just be very slow and deliberate about it. add sand in small quantities using pvc pipe to distribute it (as you can read up on this doing a search). In the end you want to target 3-4 inches for your sand bed (some would say more, so that's just my 2c). Adding rock is simple as you know--and kinda fun since you get to aquascape . You probably won't even need that much filtration as a deep sand bed and live rock provide natural filtration. One power filter (most often run without the carbon) will likely suffice. You should invest in a skimmer, they will make a big difference. Power heads are good. You may want to consider then if you don't have space to use the 55, use the 10 gal as a sumpfugium. It really does make a huge difference in the system and you can rig one up quite easily. Even simply giving you a way to add biodiversity with caulerpa and more pods. The 10 gal should fit in a stand quite well. Or...if you're really not planning on using the 55, maybe you can get your fishstore to let you trade it in for a 30 or whatever size fits your tank stand (i use a 20 long under my 50 gal tank). Lighting as you know needs to be upgraded. When you do that you will likely have another algae bloom and in a sense a cycle just from the changes that'll happen with that. But nothing like starting over again. (Personally on the lighting front I have been thrilled with my JBJ lighting, but since you have a canopy already, if you can swing it financially, invest in some metal halides. You should be able to get 400 watts in there space wise pretty easily and that'd let you keep a wide variety of corals--obviously if you can afford to put in more that's great, but if i were you i'd set 400 as a minimum goal--again, if you can afford it). Just do everything in increments slow and steady like and you should be able to keep the system running 100% of the time thus minimizing stress on your fish etc...

 

[broomer5]

Here's an extreme approach - one that you may or may not want to consider. Much of this approach depends on the amount of work and money you want to invest.
Set the 55 back up somewhere.
Transfer everything from the 75 back in to it, including all water, sand, rock and fish ( better yet - return the damsel and possibly the Regal Tang to LFS )
Totally tear down the 75 and clean it out.
Lay down a 5 inch deep sandbed dry.
Mix up brand new saltwater using ALL RO water.
Add this saltwater to tank, add heater with a couple powerheads.
When the tankwater is warm after several days running - add another inch or so of live sand and some live rock.
Cycle this new 75 gallon tank using the live sand / live rock.
As the tank cycles - begin the process of upgrading your lighting.
440 watts of VHO ( if it will fit in your oak canopy ) would be nice over your 75 - but would limit your coral selection.
A combo of metal halide and VHO would be optimal choice.
When the 75 is fully cycled. Add the clown fish. Couple weeks later add the purple pseudochromis.
I would strongly consider returning the damsel though.
Live rock, deepsandbed and a decent skimmer.
As leigh mentioned - adding a refugium to the set up would be ideal.
Ditch ( sell used ) the hang on power filters.
You may be saying "heck I don't want to go through all of that hassle" ..... but in my opinion ~ it would be the very best way to insure long term success.
After a few months - tear down the 55 ( again ) and you'd have the 75 running right ~ fully cycled, new deepsand bed, sufficient amount of live rock and a couple of nice fish.
Let the tank mature and become established for a few more months. After you've upgrade the lighting and either have skimmer, sump, refugium or combo of these ....... begin the process of adding some corals.
Strongly encourage a sump or sump / refugium on a 75 gallon tank. It can be done fairly inexpensive if you are handy with some basic tools ( DIY )
Extreme measures I know ~ but you would be able to eliminate a lot of possible problems - and do it right.
Do it right the 2nd time ~ so you don't have to do it again on a 3rd try.
Good luck on your choices.

 

[bambalamb]

broomer5
Thanx so much for the detailed advice. I sincerely appreciate you and Leigh for taking the time to help me.
I fully plan to take your advice and take my tank to the next level. I do, however, have a question or two before I take my next (baby) steps.
First off, the Regal Tang is history. I came home from work today to find him finishing off my purple pseudo. I should have gotten rid of him after he offed my pair of Heniochus last week. I traded him back to the lfs I bought him from 2 weeks ago.
I have several things left from my first reef attempt that I would like to use again - an Amiracle overflow box, Angstrom inline UV sterilizer, several powerheads, an eggcrate + PVC plenum, and most importantly, about 60 lbs of base rock. I really would like to use it to start a foundation for the live rock I would add later. Seems a shame not to use it at all.
I have looked over a 50 mile radius to find Southdown sand and have come up empty. Is there a big difference, or would the smallest, whitest sand be ok?
Metal halide pendants are my current top choice for a lighting upgrade. I could skip the oak canopy to avoid a heat issue. Just don't know if I would need the actinics to help. Right now I have quite a lot of evaporation - maybe from all the surface agitation due to the filters.
Sorry I have thrown so much at you; I just want to have a rock solid game plan to start things out.

 

[bambalamb]

OK, here's the latest;
First off, thanks to all for the great advice. Leigh, Broomer5, Redcorsair - you're the best.
I'm currently thinking of going VHO. Hellolights has a 4 bulb setup for $155 that looks real good. Low heat, lower power bill than a MH, still can keep most corals. I think I could also fit my pair of 40w URI's in the canopy with that as well. 520w of lighting should be sufficient for the corals I want to keep.
Here's where I need your feedback: what VHO's would you put in the retrofit kit. Here's the choices:
Coralife 10,000K
URI Aquasun 10,000
Coralife Actinic 03
URI Super Actinic
Coralife 50/50
URI Actinic White 50/50
Coralife Trichromatic 6,500
I don't know anything about these bulbs, except URI's have a real good track record. Just looking for the best combination.
Still no luck with the Southdown sand. Thinking of going with something else - I'm ready to get this party started.
Probably will use my 10 gal as a fuge, even though I think it may be smaller than I would like. By the time I get a PS for the front half of it there won't be much room left for the pods on the other half. I think a 20 high would work best in the area under the tank that I want to put it.
Don't think I'll go with the PVC plenum I had left over. Lots of posts saying DSB alone is the way to go.
Well I guess that's all for now. Hope everyone still looks at this old thread.

 

[hairtrigger]

Broomer's got the right idea in my two cent opinion. He's given moi some good advice for my tank which is now doing great. Oh yeah..... it took me two tries as well as finding this board too. Good choice.

 

[wolffam]

Good luck. You also found the site that will give you the most advise around. Listen carefully from those who have been there and done that. Don't be afraid to ask and offer you opinions and advice. But most of all enjoy the hobby and you'll have success.

 

[bambalamb]

So what do you think, a pair of MH with the 2 URI 40W or the MORE ECONOMICAL VHO'S? Not like I'm trying to influence anyone, hehe.

 

[leigh]

if i could've afforded it, i'd have gotten MH's...clams are just so cool. (not the answer you want to hear )