3 hardy fish dead in 3 days - what's the problem???

[felipe]

I started my first SW tank early in december, and cycled with damsels. A couple died in the process, and I used a little bit of live rock ( 5-6 lb.s)
My tank is a Oceanic 50g. Wet and dry filter w/ bioballs.
A couple of weeks ago, i also added Xenias ( they are multiplying) and some green polips ( brand new).
3 days ago, my porkfish died. It was my first non cycling fish to die. 24 hours later, a hi hat drum died. Tonight I saw a 3 stripe damsel die as well.
I have many inverts in the tank ( sally lightfoot, green emerald, snails, tiger cowrie and many hermits), and 3 starfish ( choc hip, sand sifter and serpent). They all seem to be doing fine, moving around, eating, etc...
I tested and my nitrates are what they have always been. Around 40. Amonia is almost zero, but not quite. Same with nitrites. pH seems to be 7.8.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance for the help!
Felipe

 

[cain420]

most would suggest that a minimum of 1lb/gallon of live rock is necessary for biological filtration..... the tank is a few months old with lots of stock and little filtration... imo.. that could be the cause.. another cause is the level of nitrates.. keeping up on water changes?? pH is way low!! should be 8.3!!!!
all levels should be at 0 before adding anything..
also, what is your salinity??? and what are u using to check it?

 

[cain420]

oh yea.. and bio balls can collect nitrates.. i would rinse them with your old water from your next waterchange... thats gonna take some of your bio-filter away though.. i would suggest alot more live rock..

 

[felipe]

I have about 40 lbs of rock now, but only 2 pieces were bought at the LFS as purple live rock.
My salinity is 1.023. I use a SeaTest, nothing fancy to measure it.
What I don't understand is why are the hardy fish like the damsel and porkfish dying, and
more delicate fish I have ( panther grouper, clown, red weaver and puffer) still doing ok, as well as the corals, which I thought would be the first to die if the water consitions were all that bad)
How do I make my pH get higher?
Thansk again
Felipe

 

[ktsdad]

Let me see if I read this correctly:
You started your tank last December.
Between then and now you have added 40 pounds of live rock in a 50 gallon tank.
Wet/dry filter with bio-balls.
You don't mention if you have a skimmer or not.
You have the following livestock:
Xenias
green polyp
porkfish (?)
hi hat drum (?)
3 stripe damsel
sally lightfoot
green emeral
snails
tiger cowrie (?)
many hermits
choc chip star
sand sifter star
serpent star
panther grouper
clown
red weaver
and a puffer
All this in a new 50 gallon tank?
You are WAY overstocked! Your filtration just can't handle the bio load.

 

[felipe]

No skimmer.
Not all of it was live rock when I got it. I got a few pieces hoiping they would turn into live rock using a few LFS bought purple pieces ( 1-2 lbs. each)
What i don't understand is why the fish are dying, one at a time, and the hardy ones , but not the coral of the weaker fish.
And please tell me what you think I should do!
Will more bioballs help? More live rock? Can adding too much live rock at once harm the tank?
Thanks,
Felipe

 

[lion_crazz]

Well immediately my main issues with your tank is your low pH and your traces of ammonia and nitrite. These both need to be 0 and your pH needs to be much higher. You also definitely need a skimmer. It sounds like there is an immediate problem in your tank if you have had 3 fish losses in the past 3 days. Your extremely high bioload would be the cause of spiking ammonia and nitrite levels. What are the exact levels of your ammonia and nitrites? Do you have an alkalinity test kit?
The first thing that I suspect is that your tank is too small to sustain a hi-hat and porkfish, both active swimming fish that get fairly large. A panther grouper and clownfish, as well as most puffers are generally your "hardier" fish, not drums and porkfish. These are not commonly sold in the hobby for a reason. Nonetheless, your tank is grossly overstocked.
I would definitely recommend more live rock, but adding uncured live rock to an already cycled tank will spike the levels. Thus, when you buy uncured rock, you need to take it home and cure it before it goes into the tank or it will spike your ammonia levels.
What I would suggest to you right now is to completely stop buying any form of livestock, and start investing in the things you need: more live rock and a quality skimmer. Then, let your tank mature and try to keep the things you have from dying. Both the panther grouper and the puffer will get way too large for your aquarium (unless the puffer is a toby puffer).

 

[felipe]

I own a skimmer, I just haven't installed it yet. To be honest, I don't know how.
Is there anything you recommend I do to save the remaining fish?Will buying the bacteris from the LFS help for now?
I used a test kit to get all of the measurements, but the weird thing is that when I take my water to the 2 LFS, they both say my water looks ok.
The first fish store claims the only problemis my nitrates at around 40 or so. The second fish store claims I have a trace of amonia, and that's all. Since my test kit is fairly old ( i got it from a friend), I don't know which one of the 3 different results I have gotten.
The puffer is a longnose puffer. I know the panther grouper will get too big, I knew that when I got him and will take him back once he gets too large in the tank.
I just measured alkalinity again and it is between 7.8 and 8.2 - it is hard to tell ( I use a color comparison test kit).
Thanks a lot and please keep the ideas coming.
Felipe

 

[drea]

did u acclimate the fish?

 

[felipe]

Yes, I drip acclimated them, and I had them for a few weeks before they died.

 

[madmax50]

I'm also new to the hobby 8 months,one thing I've learned from this site is take your time and research as much as you can.It seems you are pushing to fast IMO.

 

[chipmaker]

I think you need some more liverock, and possibly better water quality.
"tested and my nitrates are what they have always been. Around 40. Amonia is almost zero, but not quite. Same with nitrites. pH seems to be 7.8."
NItrates are a bit high, and nitrite and ammonia should be 0, and ph is low as well. Sounds like what filtration is not capable of holding up against the bio load.

 

[pfitz44]

What is your alk and calcium levels??? That could be disrupting your pH, as they are buffers for the pH.
Also, a CC Star is a preditor, and are not reef safe. He WILL eat your corals, no questions about that.
It seems to me that you added everything way too fast. People suggest adding a fish a month or so, i did one every two weeks, and inverts on the off weeks. That way it would alow the tank to stableize, and i could still get new life into the tank. Can you post all of your livestock?
The Rock you bought will turn into LR (purple, coriline algea). IF you buy the dead rock and add it in, it will become live over time. LR is not a necessity with a fish tank. All it needs is a surface to grow the bacteria on. Go pick up some lava rock form a landscaping shop, and put it in your tank. That will help some.

 

[felipe]

Ok, here is a list of all remaining livestock:
1 tomato clown
1 longnose puffer
1 red weaver ( sand perch)
1 panther grouper
1 yellowtail damsel
* All fish are ~ 2 in. long
4 red legged hermits
4-5 blue leg hermits
1 choc. chip star
1 serpent star
1 sand sifter star
1 tiger cowrie snail
1 mexican turbo snail
1 turbo snail
1 tonga fighting conch
1 coral banded shrimp
1 emerald crab
1 sally lightfoot crab
1 halimeda plant
1 chaetomorpha algae brillo pad
Xenias
Green polyps
I have never measured calcium, though I have been meaning to buy some to help the corals and snails stay healthy.
Thanks for all the comments, it has really taught me a ton!
Felipe

 

[jonny bolt]

I agree. Your pH is too low, and you should have readings of 0 for ammonia and nitrite. What surprises me is the inverts are putting up with these water conditions.

 

[felipe]

That is what has surprised me as well. I thought the inverts and corals would have been the first ones to go.
I don't really trust my test kit since it may have expired, so I might take the water to be tested at both stores tonight and post what both of them say here.

 

[cain420]

pick up some CURED live rock while u are there... thats the first thing i would add to the tank to aid in the biological filtration... also test the water that you are using to do your changes.. it may be high in nitrates itself...

 

[uberlink]

As others have noted, your tank is way overstocked. You should consider returning some of your animals for store credit. I'll be surprised in particular if your stars make it. They're very delicate and need high quality water.
Your overstocking means you're feeding more animals and creating more waste than your relatively small tank can handle. That's part of why your nitrates are high. Nitrates are the end point in the food-waste-ammonia-nitrite-nitrate cycle. There are some different methods of exporting nitrates (growing macroalgae; using cleaner clams), but the best defense is to not overload or overfeed your tank, and then dilute the nitrates through frequent small water changes.
Also, you need to INSTALL YOUR SKIMMER!! :scared: Do this right away.
Your skimmer will help pull organic matter out of your water. It will also help to oxygenate your water, which is extra necessary given the large volume of life your tank is sustaining. The oxygen will also help to gradually raise your ph to where it needs to be.
Really, install this today.

 

[darth tang]

Ph sticks out the most. But ultimately your problem is the number of fish you had and the type. * fish, the majority of the "messy" fish in about 3 months time has stressed your bioload dramatically. This is probably why your PH has dropped as well as your "spike" in ammonia. To much to fast and the majority a huge strain on the bioload. No ammount of live rock is going to correct your problem immediately. A water change is in order and the removal of two fish (grouper and puffer) immediately. This will help stabilize your bioload and then adding live rock will eventually increase it.
This isn;t what you want to hear...but that is ultimately your option if you wish for the success of your tank. Have the LFS babysit your two fish for a while if they will pr trade them in for credit. Personally the tank is to small for them anyway.

 

[felipe]

OK, installing it right away.
Any tips on how it should be done? Any links to how to install a protein skimmer?
Do I need a powerhead to get it gong?
Will adding more bioballs help?
Will more frequent DLS pads changes help?
Felipe