4 fish dead in two days?

kev.1979

kev.1979

Member
about a week ago i had an ich breakout real bad on my scopas tang, a few days later my kole tang just died, then a few days later my 2 clowns died, next day coral beaty dead. the scopas is still kickin and my foxface has looked better than ever?it all happened so fast i couldn't even set up a qt. i went and bought all the stuff and before you know it deaths everywhere?i checked my water and took it and had the lfs check it again and nothing? any suggestions on what might be my problem?
 
the egregious

the egregious

Member
Just like people, they may look healthy and nothing is wrong but your immune system may be complete horrific. If the fish's immune system was really bad the fishes skin may not have been able to heal from the lesions caused from the ich. Kind of like how you and I survive influenza but in 3rd world countries it's certain death. Ich is a painful parasite and could kill a fish in hours, depending on how healthy they are.
 
kev.1979

kev.1979

Member
but the only two that for sure have ich are the two survivors. none of the others showed symptoms of ich?
 
tarball

tarball

Member
Might be time to pull & clean the marineland 360 canister filter.
Have you cleaned it within the 4 months of tank life?
Did the LFS test for Nitrates?
 
kev.1979

kev.1979

Member
i clean it every month, i changed floss pads at 2 months, i just pour tank water over bio balls and ceramic to clean and i clean impeller. nitrates were 50
 
m0nk

m0nk

Active Member
Originally Posted by kev.1979
http:///forum/post/2545912
i clean it every month, i changed floss pads at 2 months, i just pour tank water over bio balls and ceramic to clean and i clean impeller. nitrates were 50
That's not incredibly high, but it's not low either. You should at least try to keep it no higher than 20 if you can't get it to 0. You'll start to see some ill effects over 40. It sounds like you might need more regular water changes and/or canister cleaning regiments. Personally, I'd ditch the canister all together and go with a sump. At any rate, if the nitrates have been at 50 or there abouts for an extended period of time, it would have degraded the immune systems of your fish, hence the quick death due to ich. Although you might not see it, considering you saw it showing on other fish, it was possibly in the gills of the ones that died. JMO
 
m0nk

m0nk

Active Member
Originally Posted by kev.1979
http:///forum/post/2545940
thanks, do i need a refugium or just a plain wet/dry?
I'm not a fan of the wet/dry either; like the canister it will have "dry" components to it (the mechanical filtration) that will need cleaned regularly... the only bonus to the wet dry is the greater water volume, though since they're more expensive, people usually get a smaller wet/dry than the size of sump that they'd get instead. You can get/build a sump that has baffles so you have a section for a refugium, which would greatly help reduce nitrates if you have a DSB, LR, and/or some chaeto (I have the later two in the fuge in my sump), but you could start with just the sump and add that stuff later. The key is the greater water volume, which helps get all parameters more stable.
 
tarball

tarball

Member
I agree the sump/refugium is the way to go. I have both, a 20g s/r & a marineland 360 canister filter.
The ceramic rings & bio-balls capture a lot of debris which is why I removed them from the canister filter. I replaced the bio-balls with rubble rock & ceramic rings with (filter pad, crushed coral, filter pad).
Basically here's how my canister trays sit from bottom to top.
1st tray... 2 filter foams
2nd tray... carbon bags
3rd tray... rubble rocks
4th tray... filter pad, crushed coral, filter pad.
You will still need to clean the canister filter like before, but much easier now. I personally toss the filter pads with crushed coral & replace with new FP & CC
with each cleaning.
I also thoroughly clean the filter foams with hot water.
Just thought i would offer a different idea for the use of your canister filter.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Not to be a devils advocate, I like mechanical filtration, especially in a fowlr or fo application. (if it is maintained properly) Stuff that isn't getting caught by the bio-balls or filter bags are still floating around in your tank rotting. If you clean in out regularly and often you are removing that stuff from the tank.
 
tarball

tarball

Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2546240
Not to be a devils advocate, I like mechanical filtration, especially in a fowlr or fo application. (if it is maintained properly) Stuff that isn't getting caught by the bio-balls or filter bags are still floating around in your tank rotting. If you clean in out regularly and often you are removing that stuff from the tank.
I agree

The bio-balls & ceramic rings do a great job. But what a pain in clean them properly.
 
tarball

tarball

Member
Originally Posted by kev.1979
http:///forum/post/2547657
how do you clean your bioballs and ceramic?

I would empty them into hot faucet water in sink & let them soak.
I would then brush each bio-ball off with a toothbrush & rinse thoroughly..

I would rinse each ceramic ring off also, removing any noticeable debris or buildup of algae....

Then I would let dry over night.
Then

I would break out the air compressor & blow any dry particles left on the ceramic rings & bio-balls off.
The rest of the canister filter would get the typical scrub down with a small brush....

When i put the filter back online. It would be, clean as a whistle...

I would also like to add, I am way too lazy for this kind of commitment for each cleaning.... Which in turn is why I turned to rubble rock & crushed coral... Replacing bio-balls & ceramic rings.
 
cdangel0

cdangel0

Member
Tarball;2548269 said:
I would empty them into hot faucet water in sink & let them soak.
QUOTE]
I disagree, cleaning with hot water kills off the bacteria and will leave your system very unstable.
Bio-balls should be cleaned in a bucket of SW. Most people that still use bio-balls give them a good rinsing off in the water change water that you take out of the tank. You're only trying to get the gunk off not the bacteria. Cleaning in hot fresh water will only add to your problems.
Click to expand...
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Cdangel0;2548363 said:
Originally Posted by Tarball
http:///forum/post/2548269
I would empty them into hot faucet water in sink & let them soak.
QUOTE]
I disagree, cleaning with hot water kills off the bacteria and will leave your system very unstable.
Bio-balls should be cleaned in a bucket of SW. Most people that still use bio-balls give them a good rinsing off in the water change water that you take out of the tank. You're only trying to get the gunk off not the bacteria. Cleaning in hot fresh water will only add to your problems.
It depends on where the majority of your biological filtration is taking place. If you have enough liferock, and change out only a portion of the bioballs every few weeks, it shouldn't be a problem. I've never had any problems with the tank when I just tossed the ceramic "bio-rings" from my canister and replaced them.
But if the bioballs are where the majority of your biological filtration is taking place you would be correct.
Click to expand...
 
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