911...help!

[ogre]

This morning when I checked on everyone and found my Lion was bell up. He has been with me for over a year. Now at PM my porc puffer is acting odd. The puffer has always been very active, almost to active. The Wolf eel and the 3 tangs are all fine... at this point. The puffer is just floating in the corner. I tested this morning and all readings were 0, but Nitrate was very high. PH is 7.9 and salinity is at 1.017. I added PH buffer but only a small amount so as to raise it over a few days. All of this is rather standard stuff for this tank. I do 25% water changes every 7-10 days. Any help would be appreciated. This is my final attempt at Marine Fish keeping. It's a 120 gal.
Very Desperate!!!!

 

[fishstick4sale]

when u say nitrate was very high, how much is high

 

[ogre]

I use tetra test and It was at or over 100 but it did not go straight to red. I have always had high Nitrates. I use RO/DI water, I been using Nitrate sponges, I have an Aqua C skimmer but to no avail. Even when all I had in the tank was the Lion I still had Nitrate issues. I feed every other day and I'm pretty sure I don't over feed.

 

[younngballa88]

Holly ---- batman.

You need to do a major water change and i mean like NOW. Prolly more then one.
DID you do it Yet????

 

[ogre]

Riddel me this Batman. Everything has been great and then all of a sudden it blows up? There are 3 Tangs that are acting fine. Small Naso, small purple,and small yellow, as well as the Wolf eel. I can do a water change with fresh water but that would only lower the SAL which I'm wondering if that would make things worse.

 

[flower]

Just my opinion, I am no expert. I thought I would bounce some ideas off and see if it might help.
Nitrates really don't affect fish. This much I know.
Maybe there was a battle between the puffer and lion fish? If everything else is okay, I would think it has to be something concerning the two.
Are both types of fish venomous? I know the lion is, maybe they got in each other’s way. Puffers puff to become harder to swallow but they taste nasty too. Some types of puffers release nasty into the water when threatened. Maybe the lion got more than he bargained for.
I hope it is not really your final attempt to keep a saltwater tank.
good luck and I hope you find your answer to what is happening.
Please do not do a water change with fresh water! I think a water change at all will just stress the fish more, for now let your puffer rest.

 

[flower]

Interesting Information about Puffer Fish
Pufferfish when threatened can inflate their body by swallowing water to increase their apparent size to deter predators. In addition some puffers produce an extremely poisonous toxin called anhydrotetrodotoxin 4-epitetrodotoxin and is over a 1,000 times more poisonous than potassium cyanide, this toxin is found in the skin, liver, and gonads.
Interesting Facts and Information - Why are Porcupine Puffer Fish slimy?
Porcupine Puffer Fish secrete a type of mucus, or slime, from their skin. This slime provides protection against parasites and infections and helps the Porcupine Puffer Fish to move through the water faster. Some fish species also release toxins in their slime which ward off enemy attacks. Other fish species use their slime to feed their young.

 

[ogre]

What you said about the Nitrates is what I have gleaned from 2 yrs of reading on the site. I know they need to be kept lower but after 2 yrs it's a battle that I have learned to live with. I was actually going to start a regiment of Vodka dosing since nothing else I do has any lasting affect. The possibility of an altercation between them seems plausible. I don't know enough about porcupine puffers and I don't know how long it would take for Lion venom to affect the puffer. I can't find a puncture wound.

 

[flower]

I know you said that you had the lion for about a year, how long have you had the puffer?
I have to go to work now, but I will check in on this post the morning when I get home. Keep us posted on whats going on. Hope everything makes it through the night.
The puffer could just be stressed if a battle was the reason the lion died. Puffers are tuff, he may be alright.
good night

 

[ogre]

I've had the Puffer about a month. He seems better but still not quite himself. It just sucks to loose a 10" fish. The puffer is about 6". If there is anyone out there that has any experience with Porc puffers and there personalities it would help. Do they have moments of what seem like calm normal fish like behavior as apposed to the spaz mode?

 

[younngballa88]

Nitrates dont affect fish.
Is this guy serious right now? wow. Well you go ahead and belive that crap if you want to. I would like to crap up the air you breath and you tell me it doesnt effect you. But w/e good luck. I still say you should do a water change and no dont use freshwater that makes no sense at all.

 

[younngballa88]

Also a porc puffer is not venomous

 

[bigal0221]

I believe that reasonable amounts of nitrate are tolerable in a FO tank but I would say that 100+ is not a reasonable amount. I agree that my first action would be a water change to get the nitrates down. Good luck.

 

[salt life]

Originally Posted by Younngballa88
http:///forum/post/2985621

Nitrates dont affect fish.
Is this guy serious right now? wow. Well you go ahead and belive that crap if you want to. I would like to crap up the air you breath and you tell me it doesnt effect you. But w/e good luck. I still say you should do a water change and no dont use freshwater that makes no sense at all.
+1, when your nitrates are over 100 then it is definetly effecting your fish, I'd say anything over 60ppm is pushing it, have you tried to figure out why you have been battling nitrates for so long?

 

[ogre]

I have tried everything to keep them down but to no avail. I plan on Vodka dosing. I know the Nitrates are a serious issue but I have made a point of stocking hardy fish, or so I thought.

 

[salt life]

Originally Posted by ogre
http:///forum/post/2985687
I have tried everything to keep them down but to no avail. I plan on Vodka dosing. I know the Nitrates are a serious issue but I have made a point of stocking hardy fish, or so I thought.
only a serious issue when they get high, there must be something that is causing them to stay high, how often do you feed? do you have a skimmer running and any other filtration? good flow in the tank?

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by Younngballa88
http:///forum/post/2985621

Nitrates dont affect fish.
Is this guy serious right now? wow. Well you go ahead and belive that crap if you want to. I would like to crap up the air you breath and you tell me it doesnt effect you. But w/e good luck. I still say you should do a water change and no dont use freshwater that makes no sense at all.
Nitrates don't affect fish.
I guarantee that any LFS you go to, even the nice ones with healthy specimens, will have trates off the charts.
Fish are OK with trates. Trites and ammonia are however, toxic. And if we understand the cycle...

 

[bigal0221]

So do you honestly think that levels 100+ are not harmful to the fish? I understand that LFS may have issues with nitrates but I personally find it hard to believe that it will not have ill effect on the fish if the nitrates remain at this type level.

 

[tizzo]

Originally Posted by bigal0221
http:///forum/post/2985707
So do you honestly think that levels 100+ are not harmful to the fish? I understand that LFS may have issues with nitrates but I personally find it hard to believe that it will not have ill effect on the fish if the nitrates remain at this type level.

Nitrates are an element. Just like calcium.. If you have to much calcium, corals and inverts are affected. Not fish...
Yes, I honestly think that those levels are not harmful. But as I said, trites and ammonia are toxic and trates do not just appear out of nowhere...
But I have personally tested quite a few tanks with angels, tangs, lions and puffers with trates to high to read and there were no adverse effects on the fish. Even long term.

 

[ogre]

I run an Aqua C 180 and my tank is 120gal, I do 25% water changes every 7-10 days with RO/DI water, I use 2 different type Nitrate sponges, feed every other day and limit the amount, have hermit crabs to clean up any excess. Hell, I had high Nitrates with just the Lion in the tank alone. All my readings are perfect except NITRATES. I am in the process of raising salinity to 1.020 over the next week or two and for the most part my PH is always around 7.8-8.0. I'm sick of this crap, time to get my fish drunk(vodka). I've done the research and have a reliable dosing chart to follow.