A couple of Hitchhikers

[kilhullen]

I must apologize up front... I am sorry for what I am about to say, but people who act like this are my biggest pet peeve.
You know Razor Vampire, you come here looking for help, but you keep shooting down the help you are being given. These people are trying to help you save money, time, and energy, while still doing it right. If you are going to only accept what the LFS says, then perhaps you are wasting your time asking questions here, and everyone else is wasting their time trying to help you.
There are some ethics questions that need to be addressed about how you are treating the damsel(s). You yourself said the Nitrites are poisonous to the fish. Would you want to be put in a closed room and gased with something poisonous to force you to produce Carbon Dioxide so plants can produce oxygen? I realize that is a bit extreme, but likely what your poor damsel feels like. Very unethical when there is so many OTHER ways to do it while being more successful and ethical, and safe.
As for your hitchhikers, without better pictures it just looks like a bunch of rock with no life at all. Either focus the pictures better, or get a tripod and slow the exposure down with softer light. No one can even begin to try to help you with what you have provided.
Good Luck!

 

[petjunkie]

What you don't seem to grasp is that any waste would make a cycle, people just use a dead shrimp because then you don't have to torture and possibly kill a damsel or try to catch one once you are done with it. Lots of food dumped in the tank created the same thing. Especially in a 12 gallon it doesn't take much to get some ammonia. Honestly you need to slow down, if you add a clownfish in a week you will very likely end up with a dead clownfish. You need to let your tank stabilize a little, probably a month or so while you do some serious reading on keeping a saltwater aquarium. Once your cycle is finished add a couple snails and hermits then wait a few weeks before adding a fish. Make sure you can keep the tank parameters, temp, salinity, ph, etc steady for a while.

 

[razor vampire]

Kilhullen/petjunkie: I heard you loud and clear you're not the only ones here. You guys are being way too bossy, and need to leave this topic. You stated your options that's all you can do. You can't control another person.
I know what you're saying. Can I please read others options.
Also, the guy at the fish store and 10+ other guys told me the same, about keeping the damsel.
And when has this place became peta?

 

[symon]

Originally Posted by Razor Vampire
Kilhullen/petjunkie: I heard you loud and clear you're not the only ones here. You guys are being way too bossy, and need to leave this topic. You stated your options that's all you can do. You can't control another person.
I know what you're saying. Can I please read others options.
Also, the guy at the fish store and 10+ other guys told me the same, about keeping the damsel.
And when has this place became peta?
As much as i agree with you that some people can be a little bossy here, I can't see it on this post! But, as far as cycling is concerned, YES a shrimp will do fine to start off you cycle, Yes a damsel will do fine to start off you cycle ( nothing like watching it WRITHE in PAIN AND GASP FOR AIR ) for someones personal pleasure! Heck why not throw a puppy in there , that should start you cycle just fine too!
The real point is, some Lfs's still do things the old fashioned way, not that they are telling you something wrong, they are just telling you the way they do it. And in this day and age it is completely Unreasonable to cause harm to ANY aminal , even a mean , nasty devil of a fish like a damsel!

Rant over , Have a Lovely Day !

 

[sk8shorty01]

You are telling people that are answering your questions to get out of your post because they are being to bossy. Why even come in and read the information that people provide you (people with more experience no less), or even post the question in the first place if everyone is telling you the same thing and you are still telling them that the LFS said to do it that way. Think about it this way. They made probably 6-8 dollars off of you on that Damsel, then when it dies and you "have" to buy another one to keep your cycle going they will make another 6-8. Not all people that work at LFS are experienced, and a lot of them that are experienced know that you are not and will try to make a quick buck off of you. Listen to these people on here, as they are here to help you, not make money off of you. If you believe everything that the LFS tells you, then dont post questions, because you already believe what you were told anyways. Why ask a question that you believe you already know the answer to?

 

[kilhullen]

Originally Posted by Razor Vampire
Kilhullen/petjunkie: I heard you loud and clear you're not the only ones here. You guys are being way too bossy, and need to leave this topic. You stated your options that's all you can do. You can't control another person.
I know what you're saying. Can I please read others options.
Also, the guy at the fish store and 10+ other guys told me the same, about keeping the damsel.
And when has this place became peta?
Nope your right, I can't control another person - if I could, this country would not be at war, there would be no hunger, and everyone would live in a perfect utopia. Animal Cruelty would be a thing of the past, no poverty, no cancer, nothing vile, evil, or detestable. Yep - I learned a long time ago, I can only control myself.
My point is (which obviously you didn't understand) - everyone is giving you the same opinion from all different directions, all different places, and all different walks of life and you keep throwing the LFS's statement at them ... My parents had a tank 25 years ago and used Dominos, now they don't because it is outdated and cruel. If you want to ONLY listen to the LFS, then do it, but stop trying to find someone here to agree with you. Chances are that will NOT happen. You don't have to be peta to want to protect an animal from cruelty.
As someone who is talking to 5 LFS stores, 3 bulletin boards, and multiple people with experience I know personally, I do share what I have been told, but I also listen to what they say, and I take all information into consideration and make my decision. I respect the people here and everywhere that have provided me help and suggestions - regardless of whether I took them or not, they did what I asked them to.
Oh, and if you ask people's opinions you better be ready to get them - even if they don't coincide with yours - peta or not, cruelty is cruelty.
If you want to keep the damsel, keep it. If you want to buy a clown in a week, buy it. If you want to flush money down the toilet, do it! But if you want people's opinions and help, at least recognize when they are sending it to you, because they are not trying to sell you anything here - where a LFS has a alterior motive.
Buy a fish before your tank is ready, it dies, and you are pretty much guaranteed to come back and buy more (because they tell you that you need it to run the cycle). That is more $$$ for them. If they told you to wait to make sure it would survive, then you would only buy 1 fish from them, and they make half or less of the money they could off you.
If you want my honest opinion; since you are looking for opinions; 12 gallons is not enough space for a reef with all that in there in the manner you are going about it anyway, but that is just me. I know some people do it very successfully, because they take the time and effort to do it right. Small saltwater tanks are typically more difficult to keep than larger ones, (what with evaporation, chemistry, and the environmental balance necessary for a reef) and if you are the pushy rushing type I think you are almost destined for failure. Your time, money, and effort would be better spent taking careful time and effort to do it right.
And I would think you would be THANKFUL the people here are trying to point you to an alternative. A uncooked shrimp buried in your tankbed for however long it takes is much cheaper than damsel(s), clowns, liverock, etc. to try to force the cycle faster (while - yes, I am going to say it - being uneccessarily cruel).
No one here is being pushy, or trying to control you. You asked the question, and MULTIPLE people offered you the opinions you were seeking. You will do with it what you want, and whether you are honest with us, yourself, the LFS, or your maker, it is your conscience, your money, your time, your attachment, your effort, your tank, your waterbill, your gasoline, your life to do with as you please. I just don't think it is right of you to ask for people's opinion then argue with them for what the opinion is, trying to force them to your own. Learn from it what you will, gleen from it what you will, ask questions if you really want to know something, teach someone if you really have something to share, cause when it all comes down to it in the end, you are the one who has to live with yourself.
All I know is that I believe that Karma works.
Have a day!

 

[sk8shorty01]

Originally Posted by Kilhullen
Nope your right, I can't control another person - if I could, this country would not be at war, there would be no hunger, and everyone would live in a perfect utopia. Animal Cruelty would be a thing of the past, no poverty, no cancer, nothing vile, evil, or detestable. Yep - I learned a long time ago, I can only control myself.
My point is (which obviously you didn't understand) - everyone is giving you the same opinion from all different directions, all different places, and all different walks of life and you keep throwing the LFS's statement at them ... My parents had a tank 25 years ago and used Dominos, now they don't because it is outdated and cruel. If you want to ONLY listen to the LFS, then do it, but stop trying to find someone here to agree with you. Chances are that will NOT happen. You don't have to be peta to want to protect an animal from cruelty.
As someone who is talking to 5 LFS stores, 3 bulletin boards, and multiple people with experience I know personally, I do share what I have been told, but I also listen to what they say, and I take all information into consideration and make my decision. I respect the people here and everywhere that have provided me help and suggestions - regardless of whether I took them or not, they did what I asked them to.
Oh, and if you ask people's opinions you better be ready to get them - even if they don't coincide with yours - peta or not, cruelty is cruelty.
If you want to keep the damsel, keep it. If you want to buy a clown in a week, buy it. If you want to flush money down the toilet, do it! But if you want people's opinions and help, at least recognize when they are sending it to you, because they are not trying to sell you anything here - where a LFS has a alterior motive.
Buy a fish before your tank is ready, it dies, and you are pretty much guaranteed to come back and buy more (because they tell you that you need it to run the cycle). That is more $$$ for them. If they told you to wait to make sure it would survive, then you would only buy 1 fish from them, and they make half or less of the money they could off you.
If you want my honest opinion; since you are looking for opinions; 12 gallons is not enough space for a reef with all that in there in the manner you are going about it anyway, but that is just me. I know some people do it very successfully, because they take the time and effort to do it right. Small saltwater tanks are typically more difficult to keep than larger ones, (what with evaporation, chemistry, and the environmental balance necessary for a reef) and if you are the pushy rushing type I think you are almost destined for failure. Your time, money, and effort would be better spent taking careful time and effort to do it right.
And I would think you would be THANKFUL the people here are trying to point you to an alternative. A uncooked shrimp buried in your tankbed for however long it takes is much cheaper than damsel(s), clowns, liverock, etc. to try to force the cycle faster (while - yes, I am going to say it - being uneccessarily cruel).
No one here is being pushy, or trying to control you. You asked the question, and MULTIPLE people offered you the opinions you were seeking. You will do with it what you want, and whether you are honest with us, yourself, the LFS, or your maker, it is your conscience, your money, your time, your attachment, your effort, your tank, your waterbill, your gasoline, your life to do with as you please. I just don't think it is right of you to ask for people's opinion then argue with them for what the opinion is, trying to force them to your own. Learn from it what you will, gleen from it what you will, ask questions if you really want to know something, teach someone if you really have something to share, cause when it all comes down to it in the end, you are the one who has to live with yourself.
All I know is that I believe that Karma works.
Have a day!
Couldn't have said it any better!
Also, what does PETA have to do with being cruel to that fish? If you saw someone kick a puppy would you care? if so, ask yourself why, because of course... you are not PETA either.

 

[kilhullen]

At first I thought this communication issue might have been a language barrier due to the fact that the grammer was very improper, but now I don't think that is it - at least not completely.
It makes me think of this horrid awful YouTube video I saw by a Hungarian director. I won't go into specifics, but I will say - the poisoning of these fish and such are along the same lines.
Not knowing where this person is from, I must say I don't know that it is a cutural thing, but maybe this issue needs a little peta if that is all some people will listen to!

 

[dr gonzo]

you guys need to direct you anger twards the lfs who is steering him the wrong way hes new to this he doesnt know
the lfs told me alot of wrong things is it my fault i did the same thing (puting a damselin) no i didnt know about anything then
why are you ganging up on him its not his fault its the lfs
take a chill pill

 

[petjunkie]

Sorry but no one is ganging up on him, he's been told many times the reasoning behind not using a damsel and keeps insisting his lfs making money off him is right, if he chooses not to take advice that's his own problem and he's already killed a damsel in the process. Besides I'm a firm believer that you should do some of your own research before taking responsibility for any living thing, most lfs are not experts on the animals they carry and are just trying to sell them, not give proper care information. Also peta would ban keeping saltwater fish along with all exotic animals so I doubt anyone on here is part of peta.

 

[nigerbang]

Amazing how people want help until it doesnt jive with what they are doing....
Cycle your tank with fish add an anem. I myself dont care...I am not the one wasting money..I dont have enough money to waste..

 

[kilhullen]

Originally Posted by dr gonzo
you guys need to direct you anger twards the lfs who is steering him the wrong way hes new to this he doesnt know
the lfs told me alot of wrong things is it my fault i did the same thing (puting a damselin) no i didnt know about anything then
why are you ganging up on him its not his fault its the lfs
take a chill pill
Yeah - they have 2 threads going regarding the same problems and everyone has told him the different options to do what he wants successfully, and he says he wants help but he keeps throwing the LFS's statement back, and says they are experts in saltwater and that these people are not, and that his LFS is right - yet he keeps asking for help. They have the right to make their own decision of course, but if you don't want to hear what is being said, don't ask the question.
Plus a lot of good it does to get upset at the LFS, it is up to the customer to make sure they are educated and understand the implications and responsibilities of the actions they take.

 

[kilhullen]

Originally Posted by NigerBang

Amazing how people want help until it doesnt jive with what they are doing....
Cycle your tank with fish add an anem. I myself dont care...I am not the one wasting money..I dont have enough money to waste..

I'm with you - I think they are just looking for someone to agree with them instead of looking for all the help being handed to them on a silver platter.
-OR-
They are looking for someone to smooth their conscience because they know what they are doing is wrong.

 

[puffer32]

I am only going put my 2 cents in once, cause i probably won't look at any more of your posts, no offense but your avatar gives me a headache

The advice given to you was correct and in no way "bossy" stated rather nicely if you ask me. Now, as you were already told, (15 some yrs and 10 SW tanks later, makes me more knowledgeable then you and probably your LFS also) That said, who gave you a time frame of 1 week before adding a clown fish?!?!/ There is no start and end exact time a tank cycles, so right there you were misinformed, and i haven't even started

Also, having been told not to use a fish to cycle your tank is also good advice, you wouldn't use your soon to be clown fish (also a species of a damsel) what makes it any better to use a cheap fish to do it besides the price tag? Also (as stated) your tank is really to small for an anenome, and i trust the lighting isn't good enough either.
I mean no offense here, just trying to save afew creatures, and you some frustration and money.

Good luck anyway

 

[dr gonzo]

didnt know he had 2 threads
just trying to cool things down it just seems some people got really upset really quick

 

[razor vampire]

Originally Posted by dr gonzo
didnt know he had 2 threads
just trying to cool things down it just seems some people got really upset really quick
I know seem immure
Anyway, I made a mistake on my water test, the nitrites2 were .25, NOT 2.5
Anyway with that being said, my damsel are not struggle. In fact yesterday the nitrites2: 0 along with everything else being perfect.
So I decided to buy clown fish. Then this afternoon my nitrites2 spike up .25, (I think it's because I overfed my clown fish this morning) I brought some batrica suff to bring down the nitrites2.
My clown is looking good. Swimming around, and eating. Not gasping or looking ill.
I don't know why people are getting so pump up. I guess you have to learn to work with people, not preaching your options.

 

[jennythebugg]

the local fish store is going to tell you anything you want to hear while they are making money off of you.... what are these people on this website making off of you ? nothing, they are trying to help you out of the goodness of their hearts and keep you from making the same mistakes that they did when they started their tanks... anyways since you refuse to listen to them and continue to do what you want you will lose money because the fish you put in will die because you did not cycle your tank properly, i feel bad for the fish that are suffering needlessly right now .sorry if they sound harsh but when they encounter people that ask for advice then dont take it are they supposed to smile while they know you are hurting fish

 

[nigerbang]

Originally Posted by Razor Vampire
I know seem immure
Anyway, I made a mistake on my water test, the nitrites2 were .25, NOT 2.5
Anyway with that being said, my damsel are not struggle. In fact yesterday the nitrites2: 0 along with everything else being perfect.
So I decided to buy clown fish. Then this afternoon my nitrites2 spike up .25, (I think it's because I overfed my clown fish this morning) I brought some batrica suff to bring down the nitrites2.
My clown is looking good. Swimming around, and eating. Not gasping or looking ill.
I don't know why people are getting so pump up. I guess you have to learn to work with people, not preaching your options.
Nitrites wont jump from 0 to .25 with overfeeding once...Its not going to happen..adding stuff to the tank such as "bactrica"?? isnt going to help either....RIP Clownfish...

 

[symon]

Originally Posted by Razor Vampire
I started my 12 gallons tank about a week ago. There is live rocks, live sand, add a damsel. The water test is not right. High nirtrias, amino (spelling?)
Anyway I have to wait a week before getting a clown fish. I can't add any anemone until 3 months.
I found a couple of Hitchhikers. One looks like a big slime ball with a sponges thing inside. I thing I have a crab too. I tried poking it with a straw, and I am sure it's a crab.
This other one is very small. It has a ring of long white tentacles. I poke it with a straw, and it started to hold it. Is this an anemone? I am afraid that it will poison my whole tank. If the anemone dies. My water is not good. Now I am worry.

You know i think we all have made a huge mistake! He was not asking for our advice, he was telling us what he was doing ( had already done at the advice of the LFS)!!!
OH well , With any Luck at all he will learn that LFS's as a rule are just a place to buy your supplies and such! I don't trust mine even though i know and like them , i listen to thier advice and do my own research and then make a decision! I hope you will learn to do the same thing Razor Vampire, Good Luck with your tank and don't get to frustrated!

 

[kilhullen]

Originally Posted by Razor Vampire
I know seem immure
Anyway, I made a mistake on my water test, the nitrites2 were .25, NOT 2.5
Anyway with that being said, my damsel are not struggle. In fact yesterday the nitrites2: 0 along with everything else being perfect.
So I decided to buy clown fish. Then this afternoon my nitrites2 spike up .25, (I think it's because I overfed my clown fish this morning) I brought some batrica suff to bring down the nitrites2.
My clown is looking good. Swimming around, and eating. Not gasping or looking ill.
I don't know why people are getting so pump up. I guess you have to learn to work with people, not preaching your options.
You know, I think there are going to be quite a few people here who may consider this option, as I have already seen one, and I am one more. I am going to ignore you and all your questions.
You say we are immature? Which I can only assume because what you wrote was not a proper sentence or spelling.
The people on this board are caring. They care about the welfare of your fish, as well as your frustration and understanding of keeping a SW tank. The immaturity comes in when someone asks a question, gets many, many responses, then gets incensed when those responses don't jive with what they are doing, so they not only attack the people giving the response, but they start a new thread trying to find more people who will think the way they do, and attack them there too.
It is not immature to care, educate, protect, and help.
I think you know in your heart what you are doing is cruel. I think you know in your mind that what has been offered to you is true, and you are just impatient and childish, and I don't have time for people like that.
Those poor little damsel and clownfish can't fix their water or go somewhere where it isn't polluted. You have doomed them to misery. What difference does it make to you to wait a few weeks to give the fish a proper home, with the proper balance, with the proper care. None. In the span of your life, having a clownfish (or damsel for that matter) in your tank, this week, or this time next month is nothing. In the fish's life it is everything. You have sentenced him to a death chamber. You admit you didn't even know how to feed the poor thing properly.
As I said earlier the people who sucessfully keep reef tanks in a tank that size are the ones who are patient, diligent, careful, and respectful. The ones who are pushy, impatient, and lack respect for the balance they need to attain, fail, or struggle miserably.
I sure wish I had your money to waste and squander, but even if I did - I would still be taking the same time I already am. It would just give me more money to buy some really cool stuff when the time is right.
As if you were going to listen to me (which I know you are not - you have proven that fact), the overfeeding would take a day or two to turn to ammonia, then to trite, then to trate. The bacteria is not going to fix your problem, and you are starting down a slippery slope or over dosing your tank everytime you see one little blip on your testing kit. It doesn't immediately go to trite. But that is what you get for pushing the chemestry and the balance outside of the respectable process and being impatient. You will never have a good balance in your tank at this rate.
One of the proper ways to cycle and stock a tank would be:
LS / LR
cycle fully until ammonia and trites are 0
Wait some time to make sure it has fully cycled while ghostfeeding
CUC
Wait for the ammonia and trites to go to 0
1 (count them 1) fish
Wait
1 (count them 1) fish
and on...
That would be a responsible method too. Eventually you would have your clown, and you wouldn't have to have bought any fish you don't want. All of them would be healthy. All of them would be happy. And you could have a gorgeous tank. Instead you are going to end up with a tank that is over treated, over medicated, and if you were not patient enough to allow the cycle to happen properly, I dare to say you won't be patient enough to do all the waterchanges correctly that a reef in that size tank will require.
There is one more problem I will voice out of the many, many, MANY I have with your process and theories on how to keep a tank. Why would you buy a fish you don't intend to keep, and just what is it you are going to do to it when you are finished with it. Return it to the petstore so they can further torture the poor thing? Flush it? Throw it away? Very irresponsible and immature! I am cycling with a raw shrimp in my tank, I spent 27 cents. How much did you spend on all your fish, your bacteria, and frustration? Maybe you should have listened.
I shall end my rant, as I am sure you are not listening to reason anyway, and I am only preaching to the choir.
Let us all have a moment of silence for the fish and the future fish in Razor Vampire's tank