A few newb questions

[redterror]

Hello,
After raising freshwater fish for over 10 years I've decided to try salt (FOWLR). I've read the stickies but still have a few questions I was hoping you all could help me with.
1. I want to get an overflow box, one that uses an air pump because I don't trust my plumbing skills enough to make something that won't overflow when the power goes out. I'm currently looking at the S120 and the CPR. Are those good? Are there others you would recommend?
2. Could I use the same filters and tanks I've previously used for freshwater? I read something about copper though I don't know if I ever used any copper medications.
3. Is it necessary to get a R/O system? I looked at some pictures and it looks like it will involve plumbing too. Is it complicated?
Thanks!

 

[jstdv8]

There is no plumbing involved in an Ro system if you just buy the little ones? just hook the hose up to your faucet and put the little flexible line in the container you want the water to go to and turn it on.
I may be corrected on this but I beleive with a FOWLR setup copper is not a concern (unless its mass amounts) coral is what is very sensitive to copper.
With an overflow that uses a tube instead of a pump there isnt really any plumbing required to make it overflow. that is all done in a store bought package that you simply hang on the rim of the tank, one box inside and one box outside with a plastic tube running between the two. start a siphon in the plastic tube and watch the water start pouring into the outside box and down the drain. The drain has some plumbing required, but its very very basic and will not effect the performance of the overflow at all.
That being said my only problem with the pump assisted kind is that you have to pay for the electricity since I belive the pump is always running and what happens if the pump goes off when the power goes out and then doesn restart for some reason? They all ahve thier ups and downs.
I actually had a turbo snail get caught in my overflow tube a couple days ago and started overflowing my tank, luckily I was sitting on the couch when it happend.

 

[redterror]

Cool, thanks for the quick response!
I was just wondering about the overflow box part because after reading and looking at diagrams it seems like if there is a power outage (I get those especially in the summer) the water in the sump would end up in the tank and then on the floor when the power goes back on. There is a way that the overflow would work again even without an air pump? I was under the assumption that the overflow boxes without the air pump worked by siphon and the siphon would have to be manually restarted if there was a break?

 

[flower]

Welcome to the site!
I can’t do plumbing either in any form, and I don’t want to drill my tanks…I use canister filters with great success. The spray bar is great to move surface water so your power heads can be directed deeper in the tank. Different media can be added easily. When the power goes out I have no worries, as soon as the power starts back up my filters just continue on.
Yes only use RO or RO/DI water. As for an RO system I called Culligan water. I had really nasty well water and filters would cost me a fortune. They set up an industrial 5 stage RO system just like Wal-Mart. I pay $39.99 a month and I don’t pay for filters. A holding tank is under the kitchen sink and there is a small faucet on top so it doesn’t interfere at all with my tap water.
Also you can always hire a handyman to set one up for you, it doesn’t take long and shouldn’t cost much. No matter on what brand you decide to go with..the cost of filters is the thing to be sure and check on. They are not all the same. A five stage unit is best. The cheap comes out expensive in this hobby.
Copper won’t bother fish, but is deadly to coral and inverts, and the little critters that live in the live rock. Do a copper test on your freshwater set up if haven’t broke it down yet to go salt. Doing a copper test will give you some much needed piece of mind.
I want to ask…why no coral and going fish only? I understand if you want a certain type of not reef safe fish, but if it because of lighting or fear of not being able to keep corals, it really is easy and you can keep certain corals under regular fish lights. In case you want to think about it.

 

[jstdv8]

No, if we had to manually restart them after every power outage I don't think there is anyone who would use them.
When the power goes out the return pump from your sump stops pushing water into the tank but the overflow is still siphoning. This continues for a short period until the water is lower than the teeth on the lip of the overflow box (the insde one) once the water in the display tank is lower than that no more water is allowed to get into the overflow box so that as much as you should get in your sump. Now here's the magic part. On the overflow box on the outside the plastic tube sits in that box lower than that drain tube. The drain tube actually sticks up inside that outside boz a few inches. So there will always be water that will be in the outside box, it only drains if the water rises up higher than the drain tube inside that box. so this means that the siphon will stay going as long as the plastic tube is lower than the drain tube. This is all set up right out of the box, just hang and siphon once.... So on the inside the water stops coming int the box but it wills tay at the same level on the inside and the outside because the plastic tube's ends are both under a little bit of water. So the magis is that the siphon is not broken.
Once the power comes back on the return pump starts pumping water back intot he display tank, the tank fills up and starts overflowing through the teeth of the inside box and that box fills up higher than the outside box causing the siphon to start flowing. Fills up the outside box until it gets above the drain and the drain starts working and all is going again just as if nothing ever happend.
The only thing that can go wrong is if you get a stupid snail that goes awol into that tube and stops the flow enough to make the return pump more powerful than overflow. Or you jostle the tube around while doing maintenance and it lifts out of the box far enough to come above the drain in the outside box and it breaks the siphon.
or your return pump doesnt restart when the power is restored in which case you won't get any flow down to yourstuff in the fuge and could cause problems there if not found.

 

[redterror]

Thanks for the helpful info!
Flower - Thanks! Glad I found this site!
I might just go without the sump and use regular filters if it is too complicated. But I thought it'd be cool to build a first sump along with a first saltwater tank. I like how a sump can give the tank a less cluttered look. I haven't really thought about corals and inverts though they are something I would definitely consider further down the line.
Jstdv8 - Thanks for the thorough explanation, I think I understand now. It was hard to picture it in my head how the flow works but you gave a really good description.

 

[jstdv8]

A sump also increases your water volume making it easier to catch catastrophies before they get out of hand.
They mix air with water to help keep your PH up and stable
They give you a great place to grow macro algae which eat nitrates and phosphates.
They give you a place to grow copepods for fish food so if you have pod eaters thay cant decimate your population.
They give you a place to put naughty fish and hitchhikers until you can decide what to do with them.
And like you said they keep most of the ugly stuff like skimmer, heaters, scrubbrs ect out of the Dispaly tank.

 

[xcali1985]

also remember youtube is your friend a lot of people an some companies have demostrations of a lot of equipment on there and it can answer a lot of functionality questions.
Heres an example of an overflow with power outage.

 

[mproctor4]

Jstdv8 gave a great description! I used cannisters many years ago on my 65 and 45 tanks and didn't ever have any problems. I just hated cleaning them. The new cannisters do seem to be easier to clean. With my current tank, 120g, I built a DYI sump with an overflow box. I know NOTHING about plumbing. It turned out to be fairly simple, inexpensive, and I've been very happy with it. I did watch several youtube videos. I turn my pumps on and off pretty often to clean, feed the tank, etc. and have never lost the suction or had the tank overflow. Just have a large enough sump to hold the extra water and it should be fine--test it a couple of times while you are watching. Personally, I would go with the sump, but a cannister certainly is a good option also. The cannister is quieter.

 

[handbanana]

I like to draw. Heres what my overflow box looks like.
Its really an amazing design. The only problem is it sucks up my hermits somehow and then I have to take it apart to get them out.

 

[jstdv8]

Hey, now I have a question. In that video that guy has two plastic tubes going from box to box. Do yuo think his was setup to have two? you can't just add more tubes for more flow can you? I mean don't the tubes have to be rated for the box? or no?
The reason i ask is right now i have to neck my return pump down becuase it pumps up more water than my overflow can get back to the sump, but maybe with 2 tubes I could open it up.
Can I just a dd anotehr tube like in the video or will that just suck all the water out of the inside box or something?

 

[jstdv8]

Originally Posted by Handbanana
http:///forum/post/3271427
I like to draw. Heres what my overflow box looks like.
Its really an amazing design. The only problem is it sucks up my hermits somehow and then I have to take it apart to get them out.
If you have filters on the drain line in the outside overflow you should be able to just reach in the top and grab your crabs out without having to take anything apart.

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3271515
Hey, now I have a question. In that video that guy has two plastic tubes going from box to box. Do yuo think his was setup to have two? you can't just add more tubes for more flow can you? I mean don't the tubes have to be rated for the box? or no?
The reason i ask is right now i have to neck my return pump down becuase it pumps up more water than my overflow can get back to the sump, but maybe with 2 tubes I could open it up.
Can I just a dd anotehr tube like in the video or will that just suck all the water out of the inside box or something?
I'm not an expert on overflows but I don't see why you couldn't add another tube. I think it would really all depend on the size of the drain line running from the bottom/back of the box to the sump and if it's got the capacity to allow more water to drain through it IMO. Maybe you could try it and let us know if it works? I'm kind of curious, myself.

 

[mproctor4]

I didn't watch the video but I do have two tubes on my overflow and it works just fine.

 

[jstdv8]

im gonna get one next timne I'm in town and test it out. you are probably right, my drain tube is the same size as my overflow tube so it probably won't do anything at all