ABC Reef Tank (May 2012)

[abclemen]

Good Morning All,
This weekend I set up my 180 galon Reef Tank for the first time. All is well at this point except a small drip every couple minutes from the left bulk head on the return line. I need to shut off the system, let it drain, and add teflon tape to the threads. I anticipate that this should resolve the issue. My tank is not completely full so I will be able to hold the water that drains in my sump.
The 150 lbs marco dry rock and 120 lbs marco fine sand looks amazing (in my opinion anyway). Pictures will be posted when sand settles which is clearing quite quickly.
I do have a general question related to loss of power (gfci trip or loss of electric). When the tank is filled almost to the top, my sump cannot withstand the water that will drain. What is the common solutions to told the water that drains when a return pump is not functioning? Whatever is recommended I need to install ASAP.
I am looking forward to my new tank setup as this is much more advanced from where I was with my old 65 gallon 5 years ago. I will be looking for advice and answers along the way. I appreciate everyones feedback in advance.
If there is anything that you can think of that I should be with a brand new setup or to keep in mind please do not hesitate to mention.
Thank you.

 

[mr. limpid]

I assume it coming back threw the supply line? A couple of ways to handle this; drill a hole at the water line this will break the siphon; install a backflow on the supply line or only fill your sump low enough to handle the water from a power loss.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I assume it coming back threw the supply line? A couple of ways to handle this; drill a hole at the water line this will break the siphon; install a backflow on the supply line or only fill your sump low enough to handle the water from a power loss.
Yes, drill a siphon break hole at the top of the return pipe at the water line. This really helps. You could cut the baffles down in the sump to use less water. You could install a CHECK VALVE which is the actual term used for the "backflow device" that he is speaking of. But I would also add one more - you could buy a bigger sump.
Pretty simple little fixes. Just gotta get it in motion.
For newbies:
Research.
Install gfci units.
Plan, plan, plan.
Buy quality.

 

[abclemen]

Thanks for the feedback.
For clarification purposes, my return pump has a check valve installed right before the "T" for each corner-flo. Water from the return lines will not flow back into the sump.
The water that I am concerned of overflowing the sump (Eshopps ADV-200) would come from the drain lines from each corner-flo as well as the water at the height above each corner-flo. A check-valve could not be installed on those lines because the water is in the same directional flow.
I partially understand your comments but I wanted to clarify what I am trying to say to ensure we are talking about the same components/lines.

 

[sweatervest13]

Quote:
Originally Posted by abclemen http:///t/391717/abc-reef-tank-may-2012#post_3475560
Thanks for the feedback.
For clarification purposes, my return pump has a check valve installed right before the "T" for each corner-flo. Water from the return lines will not flow back into the sump.
The water that I am concerned of overflowing the sump (Eshopps ADV-200) would come from the drain lines from each corner-flo as well as the water at the height above each corner-flo. A check-valve could not be installed on those lines because the water is in the same directional flow.
I partially understand your comments but I wanted to clarify what I am trying to say to ensure we are talking about the same components/lines.
If that is the case you might need to adjust the height of the water in your sump. The siphon break Snake and Mr. Limpid are talking about are only for the return line not the drain. If you drain line is overflowing your sump it needs to be redone (I would think).
Do you have a pic of the sump set up (and full system)?? This will help us better understand. How high are the baffles on the sump?? How big is the sump?? What are the chambers in the sump?? All this info will help.
Also, let us know about that leaky bulkhead. Meaning did redoing and adding the tape, did it stop the leak??

 

[abclemen]

So keep in mind while I did a lot of homework up to this point, until you have it explained that it makes sense it can sometimes be misleading (nobody on this forum). That is because of the mulititude of ideas and concepts and everyone's opinion of of what is right or wrong. I am very new to this type of filtration setup compared to my old 65 gallon 5 years ago.
I had a nice discussion with my LFS last night which made a lot of the concepts finally click for me. I made some fixes on some of those issues that I discussed above.
I removed all threaded connections, whether they were leaking or not to add teflon tape. I trusted that my buddy had done this while I was preparing other items and he did not. Obviously we realized it when there was a leak. Shame on ME since it is my tank. Anyway, there are no leaks and the plumbing is exactly where it needs to be.
As for my question of flooding during loss of power. I shut off the pump until all water drained from the corner-flos. I filled my sump to the top minus 1" then turned on the system. Now I know that if I lose power and the water that will drain can be retained in the sump. If there is something completely wrong with this theory please let me know but it makes sense to me.
My sump kit did not have filter socks for the drain lines. There is a black sponge between one of the baffles and a black sponge on the Mag 18. Should there be filter socks on this setup? Long term will be a refugium but right now this is it unless I add something.
Most of the fine marco sand had settled by late evening yesterday until I turned on my two Koralia Magnums (3,250 gph or 2,800 gph not sure right now). I had them angled at the rock and there must have been significant accumulation of sand on the rock. I can no longer see the rock in the tank again. My question is are these circ pumps too strong for a 180 gal reef? Should I even have them turned on now or should I wait until the sand settles or becomes "live"?
Thanks again for all of the feedback and I will eventually get some pictures going.

 

[abclemen]

I have installed the Koralias and have shifted sand to the point where I see the bottom of the glass in the front middle. I have one installed on the upper right side aimed toward the back middle of the glass. The other one is installed on the upper left side aimed at the front middle of the glass.
The top of the water is quite turbulent since there is a lot of water moving.
1. Are these Koralias too powerful? What is the typcical GPH per Koralia for a 180 gallon reef?
2. Can you adjust Koralias to back them down?
3. What is the best placement? High postion aimed low? Low position aimed high? Corner to corner? Direct aim at one another? Etc....
Thank you.

 

[scsinet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by abclemen http:///t/391717/abc-reef-tank-may-2012#post_3475519
I need to shut off the system, let it drain, and add teflon tape to the threads. I anticipate that this should resolve the issue. My tank is not completely full so I will be able to hold the water that drains in my sump.
Bulkhead fittings are not designed to be sealed by means of the threads. There is no gasket on the nut end of the bulkhead, so even if you seal the threads, it will still leak out around the nut. Plus, if water is allowed to contact the threads, salt crust will make it extremely difficult to get that bulkhead apart in the future.
Get your hands on some aquarium grade silicon. You don't need much. You can get small tubes from a fish store, or you can get GE Silicon I Window & Door clear from a home improvement store.
Take the bulkhead out, and completely dry everything, as well as the mating surface on the glass. Make sure everything is clean.
Squirt small blob of silicon onto your fingers, grab the rubber gasket, and thinly coat the gasket, on all sides. Reinstall the bulkhead, tighten the nut hand tight. Make your pipe connections to the bulkhead before the silicon dries. Let it sit for a few hours before getting the connection wet. It will never leak again.

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by abclemen http:///t/391717/abc-reef-tank-may-2012#post_3475727
So keep in mind while I did a lot of homework up to this point, until you have it explained that it makes sense it can sometimes be misleading (nobody on this forum). That is because of the mulititude of ideas and concepts and everyone's opinion of of what is right or wrong. I am very new to this type of filtration setup compared to my old 65 gallon 5 years ago.
I had a nice discussion with my LFS last night which made a lot of the concepts finally click for me. I made some fixes on some of those issues that I discussed above.
I removed all threaded connections, whether they were leaking or not to add teflon tape. I trusted that my buddy had done this while I was preparing other items and he did not. Obviously we realized it when there was a leak. Shame on ME since it is my tank. Anyway, there are no leaks and the plumbing is exactly where it needs to be.
As for my question of flooding during loss of power. I shut off the pump until all water drained from the corner-flos. I filled my sump to the top minus 1" then turned on the system. Now I know that if I lose power and the water that will drain can be retained in the sump. If there is something completely wrong with this theory please let me know but it makes sense to me. I would make a mark on your sump so you don't add to much fresh water during evaporation, I didn't do this and added to much water and it over flowed during power outage and I couldn't figure out were the water was coming from.
My sump kit did not have filter socks for the drain lines. There is a black sponge between one of the baffles and a black sponge on the Mag 18. Should there be filter socks on this setup? Long term will be a refugium but right now this is it unless I add something. Yes, this will collect a lot of junk coming out of DT and help to keep sump cleaner.
Most of the fine marco sand had settled by late evening yesterday until I turned on my two Koralia Magnums (3,250 gph or 2,800 gph not sure right now). I had them angled at the rock and there must have been significant accumulation of sand on the rock. I can no longer see the rock in the tank again. My question is are these circ pumps too strong for a 180 gal reef? Should I even have them turned on now or should I wait until the sand settles or becomes "live"? If you cant adjust them so they don't stirrup sand then they might be to powerful.
Thanks again for all of the feedback and I will eventually get some pictures going.

 

[sweatervest13]

Quote:
As for my question of flooding during loss of power. I shut off the pump until all water drained from the corner-flos. I filled my sump to the top minus 1" then turned on the system. Now I know that if I lose power and the water that will drain can be retained in the sump. If there is something completely wrong with this theory please let me know but it makes sense to me.
Can you post a pic. Your sump should be a lot lower then 1" below the top. Here is a quick pic of mine. Notice the water levels.

See how its like 8 or 9" below the top. It's a 67g sump so I could have about 25+g drain into the sump with out it overflowing. Make sense?? HTH's

 

[gradymo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///t/391717/abc-reef-tank-may-2012#post_3475933
Can you post a pic. Your sump should be a lot lower then 1" below the top. Here is a quick pic of mine. Notice the water levels.

See how its like 8 or 9" below the top. It's a 67g sump so I could have about 25+g drain into the sump with out it overflowing. Make sense?? HTH's
that's not the level in his sump, he emptied his overflows to simulate a power outage and filled his sump to that level so it would hold all of the water from the overflows, once he restarts his system, the sump will refill his overflows before it starts draining back into the sump. So his water level in the sump will be significantly lower.

 

[abclemen]

The last comment from Gradymo is correct.
Current water conditions are:
pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0.25 (same level for 2 days)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Salinity: 1.024
Added Dr Tim's on Friday (5/25/12) with 2 Ocellaris (1 normal / 1 misbar). As of last night (5/28/12), the fish have paired, swimming throughout the tank together, and eating frozen mysis and Marine Chips (ominvour) very well.
Question: The clowns eat the majority of the food that is fed but they don't get it all. Some food makes it's way to the dry rock and sand bed. Should I add a small clean up crew? Maybe not a full army of inverts but a selective crew? What would you recommend that would make the most sense?
What about this from saltwaterfish.com (free shipping) or is this too much too early?




Blueleg Hermit Crab







5







Emerald Crab







1







Turbo/Astrea Snail







5







Peppermint Shrimp







1







Cleaner Clam







2







Nassarius Snail







5



Thank you.

 

[mr. limpid]

Yes it is to soon for that large of clean up crew, Unless you have algae? You don't want cleaner claims and peppermint shrimp (unless if you like shrimp). The emerald and turbo's need algae to live. Hermits will eat algae and left over food. My thoughts on clean up crew either you go with snails or crabs not both, because crabs will kill your snails for sport. Start out with a few increase as you increase fish. Add algae eating clean up when needed. emerald crab if you go with crabs or algae eating snails if you added snails.

 

[abclemen]

Ok, that is good feedback.
So if I used all dry rock and all dry sand, how is it that coraline algae will begin to grow?
How is it that any other types of algae will grow?
Should I add a small amount of dry rock and/or dry sand?

 

[mr. limpid]

You need a seed rock and sand, from a mature tank (make sure its is disease and parasite free or you'll need to QT it for 6 to 8 weeks). Just to let you know live sand in a bag only has bacteria no fauna in it.

 

[abclemen]

Will Dr. Tim's One & Only nitrifying bacteria play any role in seeding the tank?
I don't know anyone with saltwater fish tank much less a healthy, mature one. Should the LFS (which is huge) have this available in regards to the sand? They have plenty of live rock to go around which I can purchase. I have 150 lbs of dry rock so what is recommended to seed the tank? Same questions applies to the sand (how much)?

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by abclemen http:///t/391717/abc-reef-tank-may-2012#post_3476608
Will Dr. Tim's One & Only nitrifying bacteria play any role in seeding the tank? Only the bacteria part
I don't know anyone with saltwater fish tank much less a healthy, mature one. Should the LFS (which is huge) have this available in regards to the sand? They have plenty of live rock to go around which I can purchase. I have 150 lbs of dry rock so what is recommended to seed the tank? One small pieces will do, look for one with coraline on it and make sure it is from a fishless system or you'll need to QT it. Same questions applies to the sand (how much)? One cup would do, but again LS is not from bag sand, it comes directly from the ocean. Don't worry if you can get true LS a lot of successful reef tank do not have true LS, some are even bare bottom.

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by abclemen http:///t/391717/abc-reef-tank-may-2012#post_3475519
...
I do have a general question related to loss of power (gfci trip or loss of electric). When the tank is filled almost to the top, my sump cannot withstand the water that will drain. What is the common solutions to told the water that drains when a return pump is not functioning? Whatever is recommended I need to install ASAP.
...
perhaps already answered but you need to make adjustments so that under power out the tank drains, stops draining and the sump does not flood.
And that normal operation returns when the power returns.
and finally that if a drain should fail, the display does not flood.
These are all standard adjustments required with any sump system. And are all possible with no check valves.
my .02

 

[abclemen]

A few questions on going from "dead" to "live":
If I buy live rock from LFS, it should be cured correct? If it is maintained in saltwater tank conditions, it should be able to be added directly to my current setup which is dry rock and dry sand. There is no shipping or long term delays that would create die-off of living organisms. Theoretically, I should be able to buy it this evening and add it this evening as well with the two Ocellaris clowns.
As previously stated, I used Dr Tim's One and Only Nitrifying Bacteria. Is this the same type of bacteria that "seeds" the tank? Over a 6 day period, my ammonia is the only parameter that changed from 0 to 0.25. Last night it appears to be back to 0 again.

 

[mr. limpid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by abclemen http:///t/391717/abc-reef-tank-may-2012#post_3476780
A few questions on going from "dead" to "live":
If I buy live rock from LFS, it should be cured correct? If it is maintained in saltwater tank conditions, it should be able to be added directly to my current setup which is dry rock and dry sand. There is no shipping or long term delays that would create die-off of living organisms. Theoretically, I should be able to buy it this evening and add it this evening as well with the two Ocellaris clowns. Yes to the first question, should be cured, asked to make sure. No to second question, adding directly to your tank, unless they say it was in fishless system for 6 to 8 weeks.
As previously stated, I used Dr Tim's One and Only Nitrifying Bacteria. Is this the same type of bacteria that "seeds" the tank? Over a 6 day period, my ammonia is the only parameter that changed from 0 to 0.25. Last night it appears to be back to 0 again. This bacteria in a bottle, but it needs food to continue to grow, so to answer your question yes, but without an ammonia source it will die off. Our tanks continually are cycling after each addition to our tanks, until you stop adding creatures, then the cycling will come to a happy medium.