cboyfan2020
Active Member
Are all Zooanthids toxic? If so are some more toxic then others and can somebody describe the more toxic ones? Are there certain colors to look for or what?
? about Zoos
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puffygrrl
Guest
Why is this the first I have heard about Zoanthids being toxic? Is this true?
cboyfan2020
Active Member
they carry some/if not the most deadly organic toxin in the world. Palytoxin. A guys dog ate like three or four of them once and died.
cboyfan2020
Active Member
Posted on another site:
A warning about toxicity. A MUST read.
I'm sure most of you have heard about zoanthids being toxic, but I bet you didn't know just how bad they can be. Here is a link to a thread in the general forum, and some info from a website that talks about natural toxins.
Read this thread. The guy had a real bad experiance, and lost a good friend.
Here is a link to the site that tells about toxins. The quote below is from that site.
quote:
[hr]
Palytoxin
The crude ethanol extracts of the Palythoa toxica proved to be so toxic that an accurate LD50 was difficult to determine. More recently, the toxicity has been determined to be 50-100 ng/kg i.p. in mice. The compound is an intense vasoconstrictor; in dogs, it causes death within 5 min at 60 ng/kg. By extrapolation, a toxic dose in a human would be about 4 micrograms. It is the most toxic organic substance known!
Shimizu [27] and Moore [28] published the chemical structure of palytoxin and it was prepared synthetically in 1989 [29,30]. Palytoxin is a fabulously interesting compound, with a bizarre structure and many extraordinary signs (Fig. 6). Palytoxin is a large, very complex molecule with lipophilic and hydrophilic areas. The palytoxin molecule has the longest continuous chain of carbon atoms known to exist in a natural product. In the molecule of palytoxin, C129H223N3O54, 115 of the 129 carbons are in a continuous chain.. There are 54 atoms of oxygen, but only 3 atoms of nitrogen. Another unusual structure of palytoxin is that it contains 64 stereogenic centers, which means that palytoxin can have 264 stereoisomers! Added to this, the double bonds can exhibit cis/trans isomerism, which means that palytoxin can have more than 1021 (one sextilion) stereoisomers! This staggering molecular complexity should indicate the difficult nature of designing a stereocontrolled synthetic strategy that will produce just the one correct (natural) stereocenter out of >1021 possible stereoisomers.
Palytoxin induces powerful membrane depolarization and ionic channeling [31,32]. Palytoxin is a potent hemolysin, histamine releaser, inhibitor of Na/K ATPase, and a cation ionophore [33]. It is also a non-TPA-type tumor promoter [34,35].
[hr]
If you guys want the links email me and I can give them to you. Email is in sig.
A warning about toxicity. A MUST read.
I'm sure most of you have heard about zoanthids being toxic, but I bet you didn't know just how bad they can be. Here is a link to a thread in the general forum, and some info from a website that talks about natural toxins.
Read this thread. The guy had a real bad experiance, and lost a good friend.
Here is a link to the site that tells about toxins. The quote below is from that site.
quote:
[hr]
Palytoxin
The crude ethanol extracts of the Palythoa toxica proved to be so toxic that an accurate LD50 was difficult to determine. More recently, the toxicity has been determined to be 50-100 ng/kg i.p. in mice. The compound is an intense vasoconstrictor; in dogs, it causes death within 5 min at 60 ng/kg. By extrapolation, a toxic dose in a human would be about 4 micrograms. It is the most toxic organic substance known!
Shimizu [27] and Moore [28] published the chemical structure of palytoxin and it was prepared synthetically in 1989 [29,30]. Palytoxin is a fabulously interesting compound, with a bizarre structure and many extraordinary signs (Fig. 6). Palytoxin is a large, very complex molecule with lipophilic and hydrophilic areas. The palytoxin molecule has the longest continuous chain of carbon atoms known to exist in a natural product. In the molecule of palytoxin, C129H223N3O54, 115 of the 129 carbons are in a continuous chain.. There are 54 atoms of oxygen, but only 3 atoms of nitrogen. Another unusual structure of palytoxin is that it contains 64 stereogenic centers, which means that palytoxin can have 264 stereoisomers! Added to this, the double bonds can exhibit cis/trans isomerism, which means that palytoxin can have more than 1021 (one sextilion) stereoisomers! This staggering molecular complexity should indicate the difficult nature of designing a stereocontrolled synthetic strategy that will produce just the one correct (natural) stereocenter out of >1021 possible stereoisomers.
Palytoxin induces powerful membrane depolarization and ionic channeling [31,32]. Palytoxin is a potent hemolysin, histamine releaser, inhibitor of Na/K ATPase, and a cation ionophore [33]. It is also a non-TPA-type tumor promoter [34,35].
[hr]
If you guys want the links email me and I can give them to you. Email is in sig.
bonermeister
Member
The toxin has to enter your system in order to poison you though. So long as you work with no open cuts or abrasions you will be fine. As mentioned, gloves are always a good idea regardless because of other risks.
cboyfan2020
Active Member
are they all this toxic or are there varying levels according to type of zoo?
newbe reefer
Member
I too want to know. BUMP
michaeltx
Moderator
there are some species that do carry a very potent toxin that when distrubed or cut will release the toxen but they are specific varityes that are. just becareful and you be alright.
bang guys zoos and some more ifo
this is a link to some more info on one species that bang guy has but becareful not to generalize zoos into one catagory because all of them are NOT toxic.
Dont panic though ;-Þ
Mike
bang guys zoos and some more ifo
this is a link to some more info on one species that bang guy has but becareful not to generalize zoos into one catagory because all of them are NOT toxic.
Dont panic though ;-Þ
Mike
cboyfan2020
Active Member
That is what i am trying to find out. Which ones are and which arent
BTW: that link just sends me back to the opening screen
BTW: that link just sends me back to the opening screen
P
puffygrrl
Guest
Well one more thing to add on my list of "Things That Can Kill You"...Good to know 
cboyfan2020
Active Member
I think I found the answer...
from another board:
.Palythoa Toxicity
A friend has been PMing me about his Zoanthids, questioning whether some of his are toxic. I won't relay the PM's we've been passing back and forth, but I thought it might interest some folks on what to look out for in regards to which palythoas to avoid.
In general, zoanthids are mildly toxic. Palythoa's are the strain that is deadly. You still have to be careful handling zoanthids regardless. However, be extra careful when handling palythoas. These are what you need to look out for...
This is Palythoa Toxica, The deadly hawaiian strain, which is ultra rare in the hobby. It's illegal to take from the sea, and illegal to own in your tank.
This is Palythoa tuberculosa, this is less deadly, but still pretty lethal. It'll kill you in minutes, instead of seconds. It's a little less rare, but still illegal to take and own. It ranges all over the South Pacific, but mostly in Hawaii and Tahiti. Some collectors mistakenly take live rock with it on it and it gets into our hobby that way.
This is the Carribean version. Common in the hobby, but not as leathal. You'd have to get a good amount into your bloodstream to kill you. Small animals and children should be kept clear of this at all costs. Palythoa caribaerum.
All three look very simular. Very pronounced mats, with flattened stems, and heads that stay folded in on themselves most of the time. All look fleshy colored and are very rubbery in texture.
In general, Palythoa are a lot more nasty than zoanthids. They can make you sick messing around with them even for a short period of time. Even ones not shown above.
Goniopora (flower pot) is another coral not to mess with. It's right up there with the low end palythoas in toxicity.
.anybody add anything different?...
from another board:
.Palythoa Toxicity
A friend has been PMing me about his Zoanthids, questioning whether some of his are toxic. I won't relay the PM's we've been passing back and forth, but I thought it might interest some folks on what to look out for in regards to which palythoas to avoid.
In general, zoanthids are mildly toxic. Palythoa's are the strain that is deadly. You still have to be careful handling zoanthids regardless. However, be extra careful when handling palythoas. These are what you need to look out for...
This is Palythoa Toxica, The deadly hawaiian strain, which is ultra rare in the hobby. It's illegal to take from the sea, and illegal to own in your tank.
This is Palythoa tuberculosa, this is less deadly, but still pretty lethal. It'll kill you in minutes, instead of seconds. It's a little less rare, but still illegal to take and own. It ranges all over the South Pacific, but mostly in Hawaii and Tahiti. Some collectors mistakenly take live rock with it on it and it gets into our hobby that way.
This is the Carribean version. Common in the hobby, but not as leathal. You'd have to get a good amount into your bloodstream to kill you. Small animals and children should be kept clear of this at all costs. Palythoa caribaerum.
All three look very simular. Very pronounced mats, with flattened stems, and heads that stay folded in on themselves most of the time. All look fleshy colored and are very rubbery in texture.
In general, Palythoa are a lot more nasty than zoanthids. They can make you sick messing around with them even for a short period of time. Even ones not shown above.
Goniopora (flower pot) is another coral not to mess with. It's right up there with the low end palythoas in toxicity.
.anybody add anything different?...
cboyfan2020
Active Member
palythoa terbuculosa
cboyfan2020
Active Member
palythoa caribearum
cboyfan2020
Active Member
I also didnt know that about flowerpots. I have a big one in my tank.
cboyfan2020
Active Member
here is the guys post about his dog....
Zoanthids are they toxic?
Zoanthids are they toxic? I have to say YES! Yesterday I was getting ready for the Ohio frag swap. I was working over a rubbermade tub and my dog was sitting next to me as she always did. I got up to get some more gumbands to close the bags and when I returned she had her head in the tub. I thought nothing about it. Dogs always stick their heads in things. 12:30
I went to the frag swap and was having a really good time. An I got a call on my cell phone. My wife called to tell me that the dog was sick. 2:00
I hung around for a bit after I talked to my wife. Dogs get sick all of the time (right)?
She called again told me to come home. 3:00
I came home and the dog greeted me at the door but she was very lethargic. My wife told me to take the dog to the vet. 4:30
I took her to the vet. At this point I had to carry her from my truck. I talked to the vet and I had no idea of what could be the problem. He ran some tests on her blood and from the tests he said that it looked like she had ingested some sort of toxin. A bell went off in my head!! She had her head in my tub.
I got on my cell and had a friend do some searches about Zoanthids. We found Zoanthids carry one of the most powerful toxins in the world. The toxin is called Palytoxin. I read the symptoms and wow a direct match. Did a search for a cure only to find out that there is no antitoxin.
My dog passed away at 12:15am.
I normaly would not post any thing like this or make a post this long but I wanted everyone to know that Zoanthids are very toxic. Watch when your children and pets around your tanks. I am including a list of links to the research that we did last night. I knew that there are Zoanthids were toxic but not to this level.
Zoanthids are they toxic?
Zoanthids are they toxic? I have to say YES! Yesterday I was getting ready for the Ohio frag swap. I was working over a rubbermade tub and my dog was sitting next to me as she always did. I got up to get some more gumbands to close the bags and when I returned she had her head in the tub. I thought nothing about it. Dogs always stick their heads in things. 12:30
I went to the frag swap and was having a really good time. An I got a call on my cell phone. My wife called to tell me that the dog was sick. 2:00
I hung around for a bit after I talked to my wife. Dogs get sick all of the time (right)?
She called again told me to come home. 3:00
I came home and the dog greeted me at the door but she was very lethargic. My wife told me to take the dog to the vet. 4:30
I took her to the vet. At this point I had to carry her from my truck. I talked to the vet and I had no idea of what could be the problem. He ran some tests on her blood and from the tests he said that it looked like she had ingested some sort of toxin. A bell went off in my head!! She had her head in my tub.
I got on my cell and had a friend do some searches about Zoanthids. We found Zoanthids carry one of the most powerful toxins in the world. The toxin is called Palytoxin. I read the symptoms and wow a direct match. Did a search for a cure only to find out that there is no antitoxin.
My dog passed away at 12:15am.
I normaly would not post any thing like this or make a post this long but I wanted everyone to know that Zoanthids are very toxic. Watch when your children and pets around your tanks. I am including a list of links to the research that we did last night. I knew that there are Zoanthids were toxic but not to this level.
justinx
Active Member
Thats just great! I just found out that my tank houses the worlds most deadly naturally occuring neurotoxin. Fantastic. I thought that I got a freebie on my live rock, and was even more impressed that it survived the cycle and has now tripled in size. I have done some pretty extensive research on this subject and found some fascinating links, and articles from peer reviewed journals. after confirmed identification from the head of the marine bio department, i have palythoa!! His advice, leave it alone. dont even try and remove it. here is a picture for all those interested.
another interesting tidbit o' fun is that cyanobacteria also produces a neurotoxin. not of the same capacity, but a neurotoxin never the less that causes respiratory arrest!
here is one of the articles i read, there are many others as well
http://www.asanltr.com/newsletter/02...eurotoxins.htm
edit: I just noticed that the byline on this photo is from garf.whatever it is. This picture is not taken from their site, nor is this information.
another interesting tidbit o' fun is that cyanobacteria also produces a neurotoxin. not of the same capacity, but a neurotoxin never the less that causes respiratory arrest!
here is one of the articles i read, there are many others as well
http://www.asanltr.com/newsletter/02...eurotoxins.htm
edit: I just noticed that the byline on this photo is from garf.whatever it is. This picture is not taken from their site, nor is this information.
justinx
Active Member
Those are not my corals, but rather a confirmed ID from an article released in The Journal of Neurology. The tanks at school (university of michigan) where they get their strains from for investigation match mine exactly. True, they do look similar to the average button polyps but I trust the biologist at the U. ( I work in the neurology department there)
cboyfan2020
Active Member
Take out an insurance policy ...j/k kinda.....are they in your tank or the schools tank?
...j/k kinda.....are they in your tank or the schools tank?