added a new 8" Pilot in 225 Tank. Fish Not eating well, swimming less.

225fishkeeper

New Member
Bought an 8" Pilot fish 10 days ago from local Fish only pet store. Beautiful Yellow Pilot that swam very well for 1st week, now doesnt swim back and forth and not eating well. Store employees said Pilot "eats everything so I fed Saltwater Pellets that other fish in tank eat well. Pilot does eat but later spitts out. Went back to store and they recommended Krill. Pilot had no interest in that. What can I do ? Im thinking this fish isnt long for the tank. Also lost its bright yellow color it had early on and now is Silver/Black with only a bit of Yellow at the head. Not fighting any other fish which are Tangs/Angels/Clown. Tank is 225 Gallon 6 feet long 4feet tall. Water quality good, except a bit high with Nitrates but no other sick fish.
 
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smartorl

Guest
First, can you post a picture? The only Pilots I am familiar with aren't yellow. Perhaps, better pinpointing the species will help with it's dietary needs.
Second, krill is junk. I also don't agree with feeding all pelleted food. It's so easy to make fresh seafood based food, infusing in nori, garlic, and vitamins. The fish tend to be much healthier over time.
I would advise you to try and find a different lfs. The information that they are giving you isn't the greatest.
 

225fishkeeper

New Member
I replaced my avatar with a phone pic of the Pilot in my tank. If you notice the redness on the fin that wasnt there earlier as well, not sure if thats a sign of poor health or just something natural to this species. This pilot also develops a "Yellow" hue at times that comes and goes.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 225fishkeeper http:///forum/thread/381558/added-a-new-8-pilot-in-225-tank-fish-not-eating-well-swimming-less#post_3324326
I replaced my avatar with a phone pic of the Pilot in my tank. If you notice the redness on the fin that wasnt there earlier as well, not sure if thats a sign of poor health or just something natural to this species. This pilot also develops a "Yellow" hue at times that comes and goes.

LOL...You really expect people to help you ID a sick fish from a picture the size of my thumb nail? Surely if you can replace an avatar you can post a picture where we can actually see something.
 

scott t

Active Member
Wow, you have a pilot fish in a 125 gal tank this is what I found on Pilot Fish:
It requires a 300 gallon or larger aquarium because it grows rapidly. It is a schooling fish and prefers other Pilofish as tank mates. It will eat smaller fish. It will grow to be 3 feet Long, now wonder it has lost all its color.
The Pilotfish diet should consist of prepared meaty foods for carnivores, and live fish such as shrimp, scallops, and marine flesh.
When first introduced into the aquarium, live saltwater feeder shrimp should be used to entice this fish to eat.
 

225fishkeeper

New Member
This is my 1st day on this site. Where would I post a full size picture ? Also, for the other person who replied my tank is 225 not 125, its 6 feet long and 4 feet high. fish is 8inches long. 3 Ft is the max size in the OCEAN. not aquariums.
 

scott t

Active Member
Sorry that was a typo.. Well everything I have read say that the min size tank they should be in is a 300 gal and they can grow to be 3 feet long and eat other fish they are also not reef safe either. It also say that they are schooling fish and they do much better when they are with mulit pilotfish as tank mates. Just telling you I just went on and researched.
 
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smartorl

Guest
Sorry, I'm not trying to flame you, everyone here has made a mistake at some point with stocking. With that being said, an eight inch fish has no place being in a 125 period, more so because it is an open water swimmer. Being solo, especially if it was wild caught as I suspect, it will stress swimming alone. They are a schooling fish. This is a fish that I truly feel doesn't belong in the hobby.
This fish is failing because of the stress of the housing and the lack of a nutritious diet.
You seriously need to locate a lfs you can trust, this one is just seeing you for a way to pay their rent and are taking complete advantage.
 

225fishkeeper

New Member
Thank you all help is appreciated. I read what you posted online as well after I bought the fish. Next time I wont buy on impulse and will shop with a list instead of just seeing a beautiful fish in the store and trusting that store management will give me all the info I need. However, this particular store installed my tank and have sold me all the fish in it to date.
I see there is a method to post a full picture here and Ive done that below.
Is there anyone out there on this site who has ever had this fish ?.
 

225fishkeeper

New Member
Thank you Smartori I appreciate your response, however its a 225 not a 125. Tank is 6 Feet Long.
You mentioned diet, What should I feed this fish ?
A full picture will be in this thread once the moderator clears my last post.
 
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smartorl

Guest
It's a carnivorous fish, I would feed scallops, shrimp, and fish pieces from the seafood counter. I buy whatever is on sale and have no problem asking for trimmings that other people asked to be removed from their fish when they buy it.
I blend it up with some fresh garlic, usually a clove for about 1/2 pound of meat, just as a general guideline, give or take.
For a fish that size, I would leave it a little larger grind and not totally pulverize it. You will see the health of all of your fish improve. This will not only enhance their colors but increase their immune system which this fish will need to be a captive fish.
If you can find saltwater ghost shrimp, I would buy some to hopefully stimulate him to eat. Once they get "depressed" and stop eating, enticing them to eat, even things that they would normally eat could be difficult.
I would offer several SMALL feedings through the day until you see that he is eating, then you can relax and fall back to be better schedule. If you don't have a good cleanup crew, I suggest beefing it up while you work on training this fish to feed.
I still don't think this is a fish suited to a tank, be it three inched or ten, I think if you are diligent you can make it work. This fish will ultimately outgrow the tank but that's getting a bit ahead.
 
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smartorl

Guest
I usually buy and blend enough for a week. I keep out two days worth and freeze the rest in an ice cube tray that's made for one of those mini freezers. It's the perfect size and fits into a plastic ziploc so the freezer doesn't reek of fish.
 

225fishkeeper

New Member
Thanks Smartori.
Great tips and Ive never heard the blend your own food before but it makes perfect sense. I have a Blue Tang who Im sure will love it because it ate the Krill and frozen shrimp I put in tank for the Pilot.
This morning I discovered why base of the side fins had turned red on the pilot a week after I brought him home. The Pilot fins have been "nipped" by one of the fish in my tank, not sure which fish yet because it only happens overnight. This morning the side fins look almost shredded away. This fish is such a "Swimmer" so I know it has to be very stressed by this. Im sure the LFS doesnt want the fish back now so I have to do my best to help it recover. I get some fresh fish and Garlic Today. I have also learned to not place any reliance on this Store anymore for my best "livestock" advice.
 

aquaknight

Active Member
The fish is a 'Golden Pilot Jack' aka Golden Trevally - Gnathanodon speciosus
Smartorl has helped a lot, so some of this might be repetitive.
Pilot jacks are insane swimmers. As juveniles, they often pair up with sharks, whales, etc and swim the open ocean, thousands of miles at a time. When small, they have a vibrant gold coloration with vertical black barring. As they age, their body starts to turn mostly silver, some gold still left here and there, like in the fins.
Some possible reasons why your Pilot isn't doing so well. Pilot jacks are a strong schooling fish, they live in large groups from 20 to over 100 fish. Keeping a solitary one in an aquarium probably is helping to increase stress, since there isn't another Jack to shoal up with. Second, it's hard to tell from the avatar, but it looks like the fish is already pretty skinny (how he looks pinched above the lateral line), and is that right eye cloudy? Pilot Jacks are large, active fish, that need feedings regularly. From the time this fish was collected to the fish store, he probably hadn't received a decent meal, and by the sounds of that LFS, probably didn't get one there either. With larger fish that aren't plankitvores (fish that eat small bits of food in the water column), I like them to be eating large pieces of foods. Whole jumbo shrimp, scallops, silversides/lancefish, etc. This makes for a far messier approach to feeding, but it provides for more exercise for the fish, rather then simply gulping as much food as they can.
Additionally, to put it bluntly, Jacks just aren't that intelligent of a fish. I think a large Angelfish, like an Emp, or something, has about the same brainpower as a school of jacks. They are a big dumb fish, with a big mouth. What tankmates do you have him with? If any too small, I wouldn't be surprised to see smaller fish start disappearing. And finally, the obvious elephant in the room, tank size. Personally, these Pilot Jacks simply don't belong in the hobby. IMO I wouldn't stock Pilot Jacks in anything less then a 10ft long, 3ft deep tank. The height of a tank doesn't really play a role for most swimming fish. They swim laterally, not up and down. There is also something to be said for the fish being older. In my experience with larger fish, there are distinct personality differences between say a 8" Pilot Jack, that was collected @ 8", and a Pilot Jack that was collected at 3" and has grown to 8". Adult, or older fish, never seem to adjust to captivity as well, or as quickly, as their younger counterparts.
 

225fishkeeper

New Member
Thanks Aquaknight and Smartori.
I came home from Work today to discover the Pilot dead in the tank :-(
I have learned a valuable lesson about doing homework PRIOR to purchase. I did not go the LFS to get this fish, but just loved the way it looked in the tank in the store. No one in the store told me I was buying a fish that many think shouldnt even be in the hobby. I kick myself for this one because I do my homework before I buy a refigerator or diswasher even, let alone a Car or major purchase. Now Ill be that way with fish for my tank as well. Now I have 2 sad kids and a wife who cant believe I spent $60 (on sale ) for a fish that lasted a whole 10 days, and I feel like I doomed this creature by bringing him home.
Any tips on a new fish to bring home so I can bring some smiles back.
Tank is in pretty good shape (other than this pilot mistake). All readings great (0) except high Nitrate which I have been working on with weekly to 2 week Water Changes of 20%.
I also will be starting a "Cleaning Crew" which Smartori recommended and that should help the Nitrate levels eventually from what ive read.
225 Gallon, 6 foot/ 3 ft tall/ 2ft wide.
Current Inhabitants.
Blue Tang ( 5"), Tank Veteran since I had tank built 4 years ago.
Heniochus ( 5")
Clown ( 3")
Chocolate Tang (4")
Koran Angel- Juvenile ( 4")
Flame Angel ( 2")
Lots of Live Rock, No Live Coral, Sump, Bio Balls, Power Head for surface agitation.
Looking to Start cleaning crew with Turbo Snails . How many to start with ?
Any ideas for additional Fish ? Would a Yellow Tang be okay with the Chocolate and Blue I have now ?
 
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smartorl

Guest
I'm so sorry to hear that! It's a lesson that everyone learns sooner or later. It's hard when you see these not so common fish in the store and usually, they are the super cool ones!
Personally, I like to have my larger fish, and I like to have "zippers". What about going with a school of chromis? That look amazing in a tank your size, the effect is awesome.
I am also a huge fan of the personality of puffers. If you are looking for a fish that will have alot of interaction with you, a puffer is an excellent candidate.
Others would be better suited to discuss adding tangs with the established tangs, I really am not that familiar.
I would go with maybe a dozen nassarius and a dozen either turbos or margaritas to start. I like to add things in stages. You haven't mentioned any algae issues in the tank but given the age and the trates, I would add a couple of emerald crabs as well.
Good luck and don't beat yourself up!
 

225fishkeeper

New Member
Thanks for the suggestions. Algae is a problem. red algae, green algae, and what looks like green "hair " algae attached to some fake plants I have in the tank.
How many Chromis needed for them to School ? I bought 5 shortly after I bought my setup but they never really schooled. (Lost them to a faulty Heater 1st year I had tank, ) Was thinking maybe I didnt have enough for them to school naturally.
 

aquaknight

Active Member
Chromis tend not to school (technically they shoal, not school) all that much in home aquariums. As there is a lack of predators, the main reason they shoal in the first place, is to avoid being eaten.
I am kicking myself for not mentioning this in the previous post, but Pilot Jacks, well most larger marine fish in general, tend not to be disease-resistant, especially to the common diseases, Marine Ich, Flukes, and Marine Velvet. Most 'swimmers' aren't, they have little to no slime coat, as having one slows down their swimming speed (just like most tangs). With all those tangs, angels, and a butterflyfish in your tank, I would strongly encourage you to hold off on introducing more new fish into tank, and monitor them for 2-3 weeks for signs of disease. After that, I would even more strongly encourage you to research and setup a "QT", and start performing quarantine procedures on your new fish.
As for a clean-up-crew, just keep in mind what fish you may want to add. I don't see a point to adding emerald crabs, if you're planning on a Dogface puffer, or other predatory fish. Large turbo snails tend to be too large for most fish, and nassarius snails seem to avoid being eaten.
Since you are asking for suggestions on new fish, I will say that with those two tangs, I would personally call it on tangs with them. I do have two suggestions, one is pricey, the other isn't. An Australian Harlequin Tusk, would fit in there pretty well. They look menacing, but are extremely even tempered. The catch, is that you have to spring for the $190 Australians. After trying 3 times with the Indo-Pacific varieties and failing each time. The Australian ones tend to be hardy, and most say better colored.
If a Tusk is too much, I think a Blue Jaw trigger, would go great in there. They are very similar to Harlequin's in temperament.
BTW, either the tank's gallonage is off, or it's size is. A 72" long x 36" high x 24" deep tank is closer to around 275gals....
 
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