Algae Scrubber..who actually HAS one.

[ifirefight]

Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/3235168
It would seem to me that the folks that have an issue with scrubbers will say that they caused a massive cyano outbreak. Some I have read claim to still be battling the cyano after a year of no scrubber. I myself went into a cyano phase after the HA got down to a really small amount. I did nothing different with the tank and let things go about. The cyano went away just like the HA did. Some will claim that their water turned yellow. I myself never experienced this. I even let the tank run for 6 months with out doing a water change. I put the scrubber through a good run, IMO anyway. I built it under powered, under the "lighting" requirement. I would let it go for a bit, I didn't always clean it every week. I still stand by my remark of wanting to put one back on the tank. I just have to give this new method a solid run before I go back.
I wonder if the people making these claims had these problems to begin with...I still dont understand how basically adding a piece of mesh with some water dripping across it and an extra lightbulb to a HEALTHY existing set-up could cause these issues. I wonder if they set one of these up and said well....now I can abuse my system,slack up on the water changes and feed the fish all I want...Like I said,I dont currently have any algae issues with my tank,I think people set these up AFTER all hell has broke loose in the tank thinking this is a end all be all to fixing the problem.I am going with the proactive approach...I am currently still trying to configure the scrubber to fit in the sump area...not going to be easy,but we will see.

 

[king_neptune]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3234947
I'm not an expert in water, and evap. But if you've got the same surface area on a screen, on a longer shallower design, why would your evap be less. Just maybe the sheet of water might not break up, but I can't imagine that surface area of the water being enough of a difference to see a difference in evap. I think it will cut down on the splash, because the surface tension will be enough sheet it down.
The farther water has to fall over a screen means it spends more time in contact with air and the light. Both lead to evaporation. A wide but shallow screen means you get the same surface area...but the water spends less time out in the open. All in all i still had some minor trouble keeping it from slurping. Enough to be annoying, but not enough to shut down the system.
I am currently in a series of tests to see how my system works off my varying filtration methods. I am going to be going back and forth beetween Scrubber/Skimmer/Carbon reactor, so I can try different combination. to see who is pulling the most weight.
I think so far I have proven reliably to myself that the scrubber does the most unseen work(keeping my trites/trates,amonia down to almost nill). The skimmer produces the best visuals in the least amount of time(pristine clear water). And the carbon reactor falls in the middle.
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/3235168
It would seem to me that the folks that have an issue with scrubbers will say that they caused a massive cyano outbreak.
Interesting, If you remember I had that massive cyano outbreak about my 3rd month. It was squashed rather promptly from a couple doses of "Chemiclean Red slime Remover"
That stuff destroyed my cyano proble, and I have never had it surface since.
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/3235168
...I even let the tank run for 6 months with out doing a water change. I put the scrubber through a good run, IMO anyway. I built it under powered, under the "lighting" requirement. I would let it go for a bit, I didn't always clean it every week. I still stand by my remark of wanting to put one back on the tank.
Word. mine was almost 5 months old before I began doing water changes. I noticed a quick improvement in water quality looks...the water always tested damn near perfect, but the overall color and pristine look deffinatly was noticable.
I also began using my skimmer around that time as well, so I could argue that WC combined with skimmer gave me that.
I probably will never neglect my WC like that again. I just wanted to stress the system to see what it could handle. Im really happy to know that the scrubber kept everything happy even under the abuse. I will be turning it back on sometime later this summer.

 

[king_neptune]

I was thinking about it and something also of note came up.
Because of the overall rapid evaporation, a person with a scrubber will be doing natural water changes in a small way. Say I just said flat 5g a week of RO water. My system has roughly 160-170g total volume.
My water change becomes %8-%8.5
Thats pretty descent WC being done, doesn't over power the traditional 10% weekly(the fresh salt is great for my coral and other similar types of life). I pull out a 20g bin's worth every 7-9 days. I think that gives me a good steady changing session, and so far its been a nice improvement. So I have nothing but happy to say. So when I do flip the scrubber back on. Ill be doing a lot of water overall. And the system will shine!

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by King_Neptune
http:///forum/post/3235456
I was thinking about it and something also of note came up.
Because of the overall rapid evaporation, a person with a scrubber will be doing natural water changes in a small way. Say I just said flat 5g a week of RO water. My system has roughly 160-170g total volume.
My water change becomes %8-%8.5
Thats pretty descent WC being done, doesn't over power the traditional 10% weekly(the fresh salt is great for my coral and other similar types of life). I pull out a 20g bin's worth every 7-9 days. I think that gives me a good steady changing session, and so far its been a nice improvement. So I have nothing but happy to say. So when I do flip the scrubber back on. Ill be doing a lot of water overall. And the system will shine!
No water change is being done. When water evaporates, it is strictly H2O, well mostly. The containments in the tank water stay behind.
You are slightly diluting the water. 165gallons of water with 40 nitrates, with 5gals of 0 nitrate water added in, reduces nitrates to 38.85

 

[louti]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3235519
No water change is being done. When water evaporates, it is strictly H2O, well mostly. The containment in the tank water stay behind.
You are slightly dilluting the water. 165gallons of water with 40 nitrates, with 5gals of 0 nitrate water add, reduces nitrates to 38.85

Yeah, no water change at all. As water evaporates, everything becomes slightly more concentrated. Then you top off and dilute back to original levels.

 

[posiden]

Originally Posted by ifirefight
http:///forum/post/3235341
I wonder if the people making these claims had these problems to begin with...I still dont understand how basically adding a piece of mesh with some water dripping across it and an extra lightbulb to a HEALTHY existing set-up could cause these issues. I wonder if they set one of these up and said well....now I can abuse my system,slack up on the water changes and feed the fish all I want...Like I said,I dont currently have any algae issues with my tank,I think people set these up AFTER all hell has broke loose in the tank thinking this is a end all be all to fixing the problem.I am going with the proactive approach...I am currently still trying to configure the scrubber to fit in the sump area...not going to be easy,but we will see.
I think your on to something with that first statement. I don't believe folks give things enough time. The issue may be there and they don't even know it or that they are just going through the cycle of a marine tank. It is on here all the time and is said over and over and.......that you need to take it slow. I think a lot of folks want results now or within a couple of months. I believe skimmers give a more fast visual then a scrubber does. I had some really clear water running a scrubber and no skimmer on my tank. I "did" run floss though. SM says not too run it but I liked the polished look of the water. Plus it grabbed any food that got by the fish and made it over into the OF. I had better polyp extension running my scrubber then I do now. My water still tests the same now as it did with the scrubber and that is unmeasurable Trates, Trites, Ammon.
I don't believe that a scrubber is a end all be all. I do think it is a good method of filtration though. An old one but a good one. I think it is one that has its advantages and dis-advantages just like any other form of filtration. I believe that the hobbyist needs to choose a form of filtration and stick to it. Understand the chosen method and don't try all the different funky things they read about. For crying out loud, the tank will never establish. If the hobbyist is so inclined to blend a couple of different methods then that is fine too.....just stick with it. If the blend of methods is solid and sound then it will work. Any form of filtration is a good one,(even bio balls) if you understand it and follow it.

 

[jstdv8]

After reading about a zillion posts on the topic over the past 4 months it seems that a good portion of the folks with yellowing water either didnt scrape the screen every week or tried to clean the screen either in or directly above the water the screen bottom sits in. The yellowing is caused by all of those nutrients being released back into the water. probably get a similar result if you dumped your skimmer cup into your sump water.
Also, one thing that I've seen mentioned is outbreaks coming back after being gone for a period of time. According to SM and others who have had this issue and diagnosed it, it is likley caused after phosphates get so low that it actually starts leaching out of the LR that has absorbed phosphates from sitting in phosphate rich water for a long period of time.
So to rocks leach out and the algae starts growing wherever the phospahtes are leaching. According to posts this too will eventually go away.
But this could be another reason why people get frustrated and don't beleive its working, or for some reason has stopped being effective after a while.

 

[posiden]

Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3235847
After reading about a zillion posts on the topic over the past 4 months it seems that a good portion of the folks with yellowing water either didnt scrape the screen every week or tried to clean the screen either in or directly above the water the screen bottom sits in. The yellowing is caused by all of those nutrients being released back into the water. probably get a similar result if you dumped your skimmer cup into your sump water.
Also, one thing that I've seen mentioned is outbreaks coming back after being gone for a period of time. According to SM and others who have had this issue and diagnosed it, it is likley caused after phosphates get so low that it actually starts leaching out of the LR that has absorbed phosphates from sitting in phosphate rich water for a long period of time.
So to rocks leach out and the algae starts growing wherever the phospahtes are leaching. According to posts this too will eventually go away.
But this could be another reason why people get frustrated and don't beleive its working, or for some reason has stopped being effective after a while.
Those are very good points.