All in one Sump build question

[worrballer]

I'm building an all in one tank from a 25 gal (24X20X12). I'm sectioning off the back four inches for a sump.

My question is what should the water level be in the three chambers? Does it have to step down or something or can they all be level with the middle chamber?

 

[grumpygils]

Are you going to have a skimmer?
Mc

 

[snakeblitz33]

Well, the baffles should only be 6" tall from the bottom, anymore then that, depending on the size of your display tank, you might not have enough room for run off water after your pump is turned off.
If you are talking about a maxijet 1200 powerhead for a return pump, the head height is like 6ft. You're not getting enough return power. Especially if you are using an external overflow box.

 

[snakeblitz33]

What size tank are you going to have this sump on? a 1/2 gallon?

 

[jimmy40741]

You can run the water level at how ever deep you wish. I would go with just below your overflow slots so you would have the most water in your system as possible. And no, they don't have to step down, they can all be the same size. But you don't want to have them too tall or else when your water evaporates the first two chambers could be filled leaving your return chamber dry and burning up your pump. With your measurements you are talking about a total of less than 5 gallons total in your sump, so you need to make sure you keep an eye on it because it won't take long for evaporation to drain it.
One other thing I notice, you might want to add another baffle on the far left like you did on the right. If sand gets stirred up and flows out of your fuge it will go directly into your return section and get sucked into your pump. If you add another baffle it will act as a trap for that sand.

 

[mboswell1982]

Originally Posted by Jimmy40741
http:///forum/post/2854057
You can run the water level at how ever deep you wish. I would go with just below your overflow slots so you would have the most water in your system as possible. And no, they don't have to step down, they can all be the same size. But you don't want to have them too tall or else when your water evaporates the first two chambers could be filled leaving your return chamber dry and burning up your pump. With your measurements you are talking about a total of less than 5 gallons total in your sump, so you need to make sure you keep an eye on it because it won't take long for evaporation to drain it.
One other thing I notice, you might want to add another baffle on the far left like you did on the right. If sand gets stirred up and flows out of your fuge it will go directly into your return section and get sucked into your pump. If you add another baffle it will act as a trap for that sand.
so jimmy, i could do this exact same thing with a 20g long tank, turn it into a sump/refugium for my 40g breeder?

 

[jimmy40741]

You can build a sump/fuge out of any size tank you want.
But you guys aren't reading this guys post correctly. He's not building a sump out of a 25 gallon tank, he's building a sump into a 25 gallon tank.

 

[mojo46825]

I agree water level can be what ever you want.

 

[worrballer]

Okay that sounds good. Ya its going in a 25 gal tank making the display size about the same as a 20long. I don't like how deep this tank is so I decided to make it aio.
So six inches high will be enough for the fuge? I though you'd want as much water as you can.
I was thinking the baffles would be ten inches. Therefore i'd have two inches of sand then eight for rock, water, and cheato.

 

[worrballer]

I took off a baffle on one side so the water will flow through the chemi pure and added one on the other side as per suggestion for the sand.
Oh and no I won't have a skimmer, at least not now. The maxi-jet blows close to 300 gph and you say its not enough for 20 gallons? Should I look into something bigger?

 

[jimmy40741]

So six inches high will be enough for the fuge? Well the thing is you can make them higher which will give you more room in fuge, but your return section will empty out due to evaporation quicker. So it's kind of a trade off on which you want, more water or more room in your fuge. Removing the baffle on the right will give you more room in your fuge, I was going to suggest that but thought for some reason you didn't want the water going through your chemi-pure. The maxi jet is fine, the other guy must think you are making a seperate sump that's going under your tank and is talking about head loss. Your head loss is less than 12 inches so you don't need to worry about it.
Another idea you might want to think about is setting up your sump as fuge->return<-intake design, that's how I set mine up. This will let you have a 10 inch baffle between the fuge and return getting a bigger fuge and using shorter baffles everywhere else and helping with the evaporation problem. If you went with this design you might want to get a bigger pump because you are going to have to T off of it diverting part of the flow into the fuge.

 

[worrballer]

So what you're saying is if i make the baffles ten inches high instead of six my return chamber will evaporate quicker.
I just thought that if I had more water, with ten inch baffles, evap wouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[jimmy40741]

Let me see if I can explain this with words since I can't draw it out. If you have 10 inch baffles then the water has to rise 10 inches in your intake chamber to get to your fuge, then it has to rise another 10 inches to get out of your fuge, and another 10 inches to get to your return chamber. As the water evaporates you will loose it from somewhere. It won't be from your DT because the pump is pushing water into it. It won't be from your intake chamber because water will be flowing into it from the DT. Since your fuge is next the left over from the intake will fill the fuge. That leaves your return last in line, and in that, that's why it will be lower than the other parts. Does that make sense?
Another way(s) to look at it is like this.
1. If you syphoned out a half gallon from the fuge what would happen? It would stop feeding the return section until the intake could fill it up. But in the mean time the pump is still taking water out of the return section. So once everything starts flowing again the return is lower.
2. If you syphon out a half gallon from the intake then it doesn't feed the fuge and in turn it doesn't feed the return section. But the pump is still running taking water out of the return. Once the intake fills and starts the flow again the return is lower.
3. If you syphon out a half gallon from the DT then the intake is not being fed, hence the fuge is not being fed, hence the return is not being fed. But the pump is still running. So it keeps dropping until the DT rises and starts the flow again.
Remember, just because you have 6 inch baffles does not mean that you can't run your water at 10 inches. Just get some gutter guard and put it on each wall (baffle) of your fuge to keep the cheato from flowing into your other chambers, or any 'critters' you might put in your fuge from migrating to the other chambers.

 

[mboswell1982]

sweet, thanks jimmy, that explains a lot

 

[worrballer]

Ya that made the most sense in my month of searching online.
Would it work to have just the very last baffle six inches high? As in water from the overflow goes down then up ten inches over the top to the fuge then over another ten inches but then only up six to the return chamber.

Not exactly to scale but something like that.

 

[lost in it all]

just a suggestion from my own setup, and i know i could use help with mine along the way. but you may want to put the heater in the middle chamber because of evaporation in your return chamber.

 

[tdog7879]

Here is a pic of my 20 gal.

You can put the skimmer,heaters etc. where the water returns and you can put a phosphate reactor where the intake pump is. Works for me!

 

[jimmy40741]

WorrBaller, yes that would work. And by lowering it 6 inches you are gaining a little over a third of a gallon more water before the water stops flowing to your return area.
Something else you might think about is since you won't have anything coming over the top into your DT you 'could' cover almost the whole sump area with a piece of plexi glass or something like that. That would help cut down on the evaporation.
mboswell1982, I'm glad it made sense. At one point I was even confusing myself. LOL

 

[mboswell1982]

hey jimmy, check out this sump design i came up with, tell me what im doing wrong LOL
the blue line is my water flow, the middle should be self explanatory LOL on the right is the skimmer, on the far left is the pump pumpin it back up, did i do this right? LOL

 

[jimmy40741]

There is nothing wrong with your design. It's pretty much the same design as WorrBaller's.