All my fish are dying, this sucks.

[lighteningthes]

I am new here and have been posting alot of questions because of the idiots at my fish store. Over the past week I have lost 5 fish. This is what is going on in the tank. Water parameters are
nitrites 0
nitrates 0
ammonia 0
ph 7.8
I started with an ich problem last week. We started hypo.
My copperbanded butterfly was first to go, breathing heavy and laying on its side. I did a freshwater bath on the remaining fish hoping to get some of the ich off them while the tank salt was dropping.
My two bannerfish looked like crap, they were pale and started to have fin rot and pop eye. We started melafix to try and clear that up. Over the last two days, they both have died.
We noticed our yellow eye tang started to look really bad. To me it looked like hyper-malinization. His color was fading. Last night he started the fast breathing and laying on his side. Last night he died.
My remaining fish are yellow tang and sailfin tang, both of which look fine, no signs of ich. The yellow tang does however have what looks like septicemia, he has a red streak going from the middle of his back up through his top fin.
Two clowns who every once in a while look tired and sit on the bottom. If I move them to a breeding tank at the top of the tank they act fine.
My lionfish has some small ich spots but going away.
My eel remains unchanged.
Two indestructible damsels that have not been eatin by the lionfish or eel!
I have taken all but one piece of live rock out while i drop the salt. I don't know what else to do.

 

[spanko]

https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/332178/cycling-a-new-tank
Sorry but if it is in this tank you have moved too fast in the addtion of all that you have noted above. Your tank is probably not ready for the bioload that you have added. Did you do the readings above yourself? What brand test kits did you use? Your best bet is to do the hypo right now and try to get back on track. Your display tank will need to sit fallow (without fish) for the next 6 weeks to run through the life cycle of Ich to ensure you kill it off in the tank. Do the Hypo in a hospital tank. Unfortunate that the fish are dying. You can get back to ground zero though and move on from there.

 

[rcreations]

Sounds to me like you have/had a lot of fish. How big is your tank? Over what period of time did you add the fish?
Considering all the tangs and eel you mentioned, I hope your tank is at least 150gal and that you only added one or two fish per month to a well established tank. If not, this is the main cause of your problems.
Also, your pH is too low. It should be around 8.2 for saltwater fish.
A lot of people here recommend hyposalinity. I respectfuly disagree. Recommending hypo to someone just starting out is like recommending that they take the fish and fry them for a good meal. Hypo should only be done by experienced reefers who have a large well established QT. More fish die due to hypo than to ich. Of course, overcrowding and adding fish too fast to a new tank certainly can stress the fish out a lot.

 

[lighteningthes]

We only have a 75g tank right now. All the fish are relatively small and of course we went by what the pet store said. We test using several different methods to make sure we are getting a decent reading. I use jungle test strips, API master saltwater kit and red sea testing kits. As for the PH I had posted a topic about this before. I am absolutely unable to rais the PH in my tank. I have tested water right from my tap which is in the low 7's. I have a 50 gallon can of mixed saltwater that has been mixed for over a week now that is 7.8 as well. I have tried both Red Sea and Instant Ocean with the same results.

 

[beth]

There is no treatment really that you can do in a display tank, except hyposalinity. Does your tank have live rock?

 

[lighteningthes]

I did have live rock, I pulled it all out and placed it into a large tupperware container with a cheapie filter and heater while I hypo the tank. I had to leave on piece in only because Mr. Eel is all wrapped up in it.

 

[jellyman1213]

Best advice I can give is to NEVER listen to your LFS. Always do the research yourself. A 75g is way to small to keep a tang in. Any tang will have outgrown a 75g tank in a years time. Multiple tangs in a 75g have already outgrown the tank due to lack of swimmng room/territory.

 

[jellyman1213]

Originally Posted by lighteningthes
http:///forum/post/2750192
I did have live rock, I pulled it all out and placed it into a large tupperware container with a cheapie filter and heater while I hypo the tank. I had to leave on piece in only because Mr. Eel is all wrapped up in it.
The eel may not exhibit ich but it hosts ich just as the fish do. If the eel is placed back with the fish without being treated the fish will again be exposed.

 

[lighteningthes]

We are treating the whole tank right now in hypo. The lion died today between 8am and 1pm this after noon.

 

[spiderwoman]

You are using tap water? I'd recommend getting a RO/DI system to make sure the water going in your tank is best possible. You can throw your test strips away, they are not accurate at all. From what I have read here, you went way too fast and tank may not have even cycled yet. Also too many fish in a small tank. OUCH! I'm hurting just reading this thread.
Next thing... take it SLOW!

 

[netimreefer]

also when mixing your new water for a water change do you use a buffer, I use kent marine's super dkh and have had no problems since

 

[lighteningthes]

we were not using a buffer, just the salt crystals themselves.

 

[subielover]

What about tap water?

 

[lighteningthes]

Yes, we are using city tap water. As for the test strips I find it interesting that soo many people are against them. My GF uses the strips because she doesn't like to use the liquid testing, however when she uses them I have followed using the liquid tests and have found the results to be almost identical.
We both know we went too fast, but the idiots at the fish store said we would be fine.

 

[subielover]

Ok, so no more test strips and tap water from now on right. Those are two easy ways to improve your upkeep.

 

[yearofthenick]

There's your problem. Tap water. It may be OK for us to drink, but it's deadly for most fish. There are all kinds of chemicals that you can't easily test for in tap water, mainly chlorine, which is toxic to all fish.
Use RO water which is readily available at any local fish store. This alone will greatly improve the likelihod of your fish surviving.

 

[rcreations]

Well, you learned something from this experience and now you know for one thing not to listen to the LFS. Always take it slow adding fish, especially to a new tank and always do research to make sure your tank is the right size for the fish you put in.

 

[sepulatian]

It sounds to me like you had different ailments all going on at the same time. The "septicemia" that you mentioned sounds like a bad bacterial infection. Septicemia is very distinct. It is open sores. Hyper-melaninization is dark marks from coral stings. Fading color is stress related. The rest, besides ich, are all water quality related. The test strips need to go. I have used both. Liquid is much more accurate. Tap water would not be an issue if the tap is not testing badly, in this case. You have no corals. It is not the best in the world, but it wouldn't have caused any of this. Did you cycle this tank at all? My apologies if I missed it. To deal with the ich in the system, use hyposalinity.
A lot of people here recommend hyposalinity. I respectfuly disagree. Recommending hypo to someone just starting out is like recommending that they take the fish and fry them for a good meal. Hypo should only be done by experienced reefers who have a large well established QT. More fish die due to hypo than to ich.
--, I am not sure where you get this idea. I seriously do not know. I came to this site without knowledge of SW fish keeping, and with a tank full of ich. I did hyposalinity in the tank that the fish were in. I had no trouble with it at all. People need to understand what hyposalinity is, and how it works, before making such accusations. If you perform hyposalinity in a new QT, that has not been cycled, then you will run into problems. Not only will you have to keep up with diluting the ammonia and nitrite, but you will have PH issues as well. The exact same precautions apply with copper treatment, but copper can be toxic to your fish and cannot be used in the display. If a display is fully cycled, like mine was when I was new to the forum, then you should have no trouble at all. You will need a refractometer though for accuracy. More fish die to hastily set up treatment areas than they do from the treatment. Hyposalinity does not stress the fish at all.
My first hypo was done in the display. I currently keep a 15 long and 20 gallon QT. It is appropriate for the sized fish that I keep. In the future, when you get a QT, it does not have to be huge unless you plan on buying lager fish.

 

[rcreations]

I'm just saying that when someone is just starting out, they have very little understanding of how a marine tank works. They know the basic things to get started, then pick up more knowledge with time. I see some that don't even understand the cycle. To ask these people to do hypo, lower the salt to a very specific level, keep it at that, monitor the pH, add buffer, check ntrates, then the hardest of all understand to raise the salinity very slowly... I think that's asking too much from someone just starting out. If they do hypo in a QT, then on top of all that they need to cycle a new tank, while at the same time being worried about the sick fish. I see it over and over people killing their fish this way.
If someone came to me who is just starting out and asked what to do about ich, I would recommend one of the ways that helps keep it under control. There are treatments that can keep ich under control for many months. Then later as they gain experience, they can try to completely eliminate ich altogether, if that's what they want.

 

[yearofthenick]

Do not QT with an uncycled tank! Do not recommend a QT for a new reefer! Guys we've been through this before! It's much more likely to fail than succeed for a newbie!
If all of his fish are gone, then the best option for him is to WAIT for the tank to balance and then purchase new fish very cautiously once everything checks out again.
Sep, you know tap water is never good for a display tank, no matter where it's from. it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that you will find tap water from anywhere which is clean enough to add directly to your tank. Even water purifiers like Brita and PUR don't really do much to the water. it's why RO units are so common in the hobby, and also why pretty much every LFS offers it for sale. Honestly, I'm a little shocked you would even say that tap water would be an acceptable means, even if it "isn't the best in the world."