Almost ready to give up on SPS

[kb338]

I've had a saltwater tank in some form for 12 years or so now. Started out in a 55G with no clue and wrong help from LFS. Just kind of maintained this with some hardy damsels until about 4 years ago when a coworker opened my eyes. I've always envisioned having one of those colorful reef tanks.
My system in its current state has been running for about 4 years and consists of a 120G with built in overflows plumbed to a 55G sump in the basement. (2) Poseidon PS4 return pumps. (2)-250W MH lights and (2)-75W actinics. MH's on for 8 hours and actinics for 12. EV180 protein skimmer. 1 tunze 6060 and 1 hydor koralia 4 powerheads. RO/DI water is used. Auto top off with kalkwasser mixture. Tropic marin salt.
Water parameters using Salifert test kit: SG 1.024, Calc 400 ppm, Ammonia & Nitrates & phosphates 0, Ph ranges from 8.1 to 8.5 measured with probe, temp is maintained between 78-79 F using heaters and homemade chiller.
My problem is that I've just had no luck keeping any SPS corals. None whatsoever during the past 4 years. LPS corals seem to do OK, although don't grow very much. Most recently bought 5 SPS frags two months ago and none are doing good and are almost dead. they turn white, they brown, you name it, it seems to happen. In additon to the expense, its been very frustrating.
I don't know what I'm doing wrong and just about ready to give up on SPS and just keep LPS or maybe even change to a FOWLR. I don't want to give up but I don't know what to do. i'm at wit's end. Help me figure out what I'm doing wrong.

 

[gatorwpb]

do you have pics of the frags?
also, whats your alkalinity at? If that is low, that could be the cause. Low alk doesnt affect LPS like it does SPS.
Also, you may need to get the flow up some, but lets see what it killing the frags before looking at increasing the flow.

 

[steelytom]

Problems with kh, flow, and phosphates seem to be the number one killers. How did you acclimate them when you bought them.

 

[kb338]

My Alk (measured Sunday) is at 8.45 dkh. attached are some pictures. I got these on 9/29. One has been brown since but some of the tips are actually starting to show color now. To acclimate, I start them at the bottom of the tank and gradually move them up. These are just the latest batch of SPS frags I've tried. over the 4 years or so, there have been numerous attempts with same results.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Just an observation ,but i see an awful lot of hair algae and bubble algae.This may be a contributing factor.Its pointing towards your water quality.

 

[kb338]

been battling the bubble algae for a year now. But my lack of success with SPS goes back to well before the bubble algae outbreak. the hair algae is on some rocks but really isn't that prevalent. Not sure why I have the algae. use ro/di water and phosphates always test out to zero. i think its due to letting detrius cumulate on the rock. i'm a little lax in blowing it off.

 

[freeborder_01]

you gotta remember though, a lot of times the reason you test 0 for phosphates is because the algae is using all the phosphates. Just a thought. GOOD LUCK!!! dont give up

 

[kb338]

don't think I knew that. should I try putting chaeto in my sump or get a phosban reactor?

 

[culp]

i would buy one of those phosphate reactor. plus they don't cost to much.

 

[gatorwpb]

agree with everyone else here. Also, if you have detritis buildup, you may not have enough flow, or at least, dead spots

 

[steelytom]

Definitely run some phosphate remover, get some turbo snails and emerald crabs. The emerald crab is the only thing I know of that will eat bubble algae. What kind of flow do you have. Also a lot of acros will turn brown when they go in a new system due to changes in chemistry. If you keep chemistry and lights stable they will turn green, then go to there final color. Changes in salinity, alk, phosphates and nitrates will brown them out quick. They brown fast but take a long time to color back up.

 

[kb338]

I have two powerheads. One a tunze 6060 and other a hydor koralia 4 plus two Poseidon 4 return pumps pumping the water from my sump back into the tank. never thought this wasn't enough flow but maybe it isn't.
If I want to add a powerhead, what do you suggest?
I've also been thinking of reaquascaping to open it up more. This may be a project over xmas holiday.

 

[kb338]

forgot anohter question. do I need to get a phosban reactor or can I just put phosphate remover media in a media bag and place in my sump?

 

[gatorwpb]

Originally Posted by kb338
http:///forum/post/2871831
I have two powerheads. One a tunze 6060 and other a hydor koralia 4 plus two Poseidon 4 return pumps pumping the water from my sump back into the tank. never thought this wasn't enough flow but maybe it isn't.
If I want to add a powerhead, what do you suggest?
I've also been thinking of reaquascaping to open it up more. This may be a project over xmas holiday.
You probably dont need to add a powerhead, just maybe change the direction of the flow to get the dead spots. Reaquascaping may help too. Its sort of one of those things that you keep tweaking until you get it right. Also, people suggest that changing the angles of your flow every so often is overall good for the tank, because coral gets used to the flow and changing it up will benefit them.
Originally Posted by kb338
http:///forum/post/2871868
forgot anohter question. do I need to get a phosban reactor or can I just put phosphate remover media in a media bag and place in my sump?
Media in a bag will work, but not as well as a reactor. The Two Little Fishes Phosban reactor is one of the most popular pieces of equipment of any type for aquariums and works very well, pretty cheap online too. What can happen when you put phosban in a media bag is it will calcify and harden up and then wont allow flow through it, reducing its effectiveness. Keeping it in a reactor with flow that goes from bottom up with keep the material lightly suspended and much more effective. The flow through the media should create a very light "boiling" appearance, like boiling water, on the surface of the media. Too much flow will pulverize the media and send it into the tank (very bad).

 

[steelytom]

I have used the poly filter to remove phosphates and it worked great. My tank is not reefready and has an overflow box. i put the filter pad in there and forced the water to go through it.
As far as flow goes, it depends on where the corals are. you want them to be in high flow area, but indirect flow. Not right in front of a powerhead. I have about the same flow as you do in my 75g fwiw. It is hard to say how much flow is enough without seing the system. I have a lot of rockwork, so I needed more.

 

[natclanwy]

If you are having to blow debri off of your rock you definetly have some dead spots. It could be solved by redirecting your powerheads and its up to you whether you want to reaquascape, if you like your rock work the way it is I don't recommend moving it. If redirecting your powerheads doesn't work then I would look into adding another PH or two. The koralias PH are great and inexpensive. I figured your flow to be somewhere around 4000gph max, your Posiedon pumps I am guessing are only returning about 600gph each depending on what size plumbing you used and how much verticle and horizontal pipe you used.

 

[natclanwy]

Also I just noticed your SG is a little low although I don't belive it to be the cause it could be a contributing factor what are you using to test your SG. For trying to remove possible organic phosphates you could try running your kalkwasser drip into your skimmer, dripping kalk into a skimmer will precipitate out phosphates. Its worth a try and doesn't cost anything to try.

 

[jbird0420]

I got 1 Sps doing the same thing. I'm not a big fan of Sps corals...

 

[kb338]

I use a refractometer to measure the SG. What do you keep your SG at?
How do you drip kalk into the skimmer? I have an AquaC EV-180 skimmer.
I think my flow may be the problem since some of these corals get algae attached to them. Would this be a sure sign they are not getting enough flow? You calculated 4000 gph. What should I be at for a 120G tank?

 

[natclanwy]

I keep my SG at 1.026. For flow on a SPS tank you want somewhere between 30x and 60x turnover rate, this isn't a hard and fast rule you could get by with less or far more depending on your setup. You want enough flow that any dietrus or uneaten food cannot settle to the bottom of your tank it should keep recirculating it until your cleanup crew or filtration removes it from the tank. Algae on the coral could be a sign of both low flow or excess nutrients and is almost certainly cause dieoff on the coral. If the coral was dying before the algae it could be living off the rotting tissue on the coral.