Am I a member of the "Tang Police"?

m0nk

m0nk

Active Member
Well, recently there has been a wave of people asking if it's "ok" to keep tangs in their 75g tanks, or asking "what tang can I keep in my 55g" or something along those lines.
A little over 1 year ago I would have fallen in line with many new people out there thinking that since there are some people that do it, it's ok and can be done with success. I now know differently, from personal experience, research, and lots and lots of more experienced hobbyist's own stories. On every single "tang" thread lately there have been that occasional person that wants to try and rationalize their own "tang in a 55g" situation, sometimes to the point of belligerence. Am I wrong to be upset by the level of indifference to the health and quality of life of fish that some people are exhibiting?
Anyways, so my questions really are:
Does this make me a member of the "tang-police?"
And if so, is that really a bad thing?
 
N

nereef

Guest
you are not alone. most of us agree with you and will continue to fight the good fight.
 
groupergenius

groupergenius

Active Member
Tang Nazi.

"No Tang for YOU!!"
I do feel it's the responsibility of those of us who have been in the hobby long enough to see what happens to livestock that is housed improperly, to spread that info to the newcomers.
As much as I have allways wanted a Moorish Idol, I won't even attempt it till I have a 600+ gallon system that's been running for 2+ years. And I know my chances are still slim.
 
S

sexyshrimp101

Guest
I am a proud member of the tang police
I don't see that it is a bad thing seeing as how people are just simply trying to look out for the best interest of the fish. There is no point in having a forum if people can't spread their knowledge. A lot of people say "Ohhh watch out for the tang police" but is it so bad to just want to give the fish the best life possible, shouldn't that be everyone's goal
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by sexyshrimp101
http:///forum/post/2477437
I am a proud member of the tang police
I don't see that it is a bad thing seeing as how people are just simply trying to look out for the best interest of the fish. There is no point in having a forum if people can't spread their knowledge. A lot of people say "Ohhh watch out for the tang police" but is it so bad to just want to give the fish the best life possible, shouldn't that be everyone's goal

Because I have some mixed feelings, I consider myself more a member of "The Tang Police Auxiliary."
 
ecooper

ecooper

Member
Monk,
I am one of the relative newbies who was told by my LFS that a tang would be fine in a 75 gallon. I have a small scopas to get rid of some algae and have had him for about 4 months (well, he doesn't really eat my algae and it took me forever to get him to eat his veggies - he loves algae flakes, but has only just started eating sheets and macros that I buy for the tank - I've also started adding vitamins to his food).
Anyway, I now know shouldn't have the tang in a 75. Luckily, I plan to upgrade within 1-2 years, so I would rather not take him back. I don't mind people on this forum letting me know I goofed (like with this stupid Seaclone skimmer!!!) as long as everyone's being respectful about it. Let's face it (like you said), everyone screws up. However, it depends on what you learn from that

[hr]
up that determines what kind of person you are (like - don't add any more tangs to my tank!).
I've noticed some people getting very defensive by comments, but sometimes it's because the comments are rude (whether they were meant to be or not) or abrupt. And sometimes, people are just defensive no matter how you say it.
So, as long as your one of the police, you have my respect. When you turn into the nazi, that's when you lose it.
Take care.
 
S

sexyshrimp101

Guest
The part that is frustrating is when someone tries to be nice about it and let someone know that the tank is too small, they usually gets rude, defensive, ignores the comment, or all of the above, and that's when it all begins...
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by ecooper
http:///forum/post/2477465
Monk,
I am one of the relative newbies who was told by my LFS that a tang would be fine in a 75 gallon. I have a small scopas to get rid of some algae and have had him for about 4 months (well, he doesn't really eat my algae and it took me forever to get him to eat his veggies - he loves algae flakes, but has only just started eating sheets and macros that I buy for the tank - I've also started adding vitamins to his food).
Anyway, I now know shouldn't have the tang in a 75. Luckily, I plan to upgrade within 1-2 years, so I would rather not take him back. I don't mind people on this forum letting me know I goofed (like with this stupid Seaclone skimmer!!!) as long as everyone's being respectful about it. Let's face it (like you said), everyone screws up. However, it depends on what you learn from that

[hr]
up that determines what kind of person you are (like - don't add any more tangs to my tank!).
I've noticed some people getting very defensive by comments, but sometimes it's because the comments are rude (whether they were meant to be or not) or abrupt. And sometimes, people are just defensive no matter how you say it.
So, as long as your one of the police, you have my respect. When you turn into the nazi, that's when you lose it.
Take care.
Well put! Sharing experiences and opinions is one thing; demanding your views be shared and followed is another. I think a lot of the defensiveness comes when folks are looking for support for something that's already been done, and get another opinion instead.. There are also a (very) few members who are so downright rude; that anyone would become defensive. If I ever get to the point that I imply that someone who disagrees with me is an idiot, I'll seek professional help. In the 30+ years I've been keeping SW fish, if I've learned one thing, its that very few things in this hobby are set in stone. (Except, maybe, the cycle/damsel issue
)
 
slycoolman

slycoolman

Member
It is suppressive (to others) and conceited to be a "tang police". People should realize that it is a new trend and has zero evidence. However, being a "tang police" and simply recommending reasonably sized tanks are two different things. I personally find 75 gallons to be a good minimum for adult smaller Zebrasoma and Ctenochaetus.
It is far better to take things by the genus or species level rather than the family. To state something such as "all tangs need five-feet, 100 gallons, et cetera" is a blanket statement. Rather, one should look at individual species and their habits. For instance, since Naso are larger and more wide ranging than, say, Zebrasoma, they, as adults, need proportionately larger tanks IMO. Zebrasoma or Ctenochaetus, being small, slow-swimming species, will be fine in 75 to 125 gallons, depending on the species.
The fact is, many, many people keep, and have kept, tangs in smaller tanks than we would like to recommend. It is not rare at all and success rates are very high. If we want the "best" life for all our fish we shouldn't be keeping them at all TBH because the ocean is bigger than all tanks combined.

The thing that really bugs me is that there is no evidence; ie, it is 100% based on morality, and it is wrong to shove that down people's throats. If "tang police" can come up with some real evidence, not just what they "think" or "hear", go ahead and preach it. But until then, think twice about flaming someone for keeping a fish in a tank you have "heard" is too small and give helpful advice for once.
 
N

nereef

Guest
i invite you to frequently check the disease thread over the next few days or weeks. it is very, very, common to see threads about sick tangs in smaller tanks. it is far less common to see threads about sick tangs in 180 gallon aquariums. no tangs, imo, are slow swimmers. the ones we commonly keep are open water schoolers. you can simply look at ratios of space that compare a 125 to a 55, 75, or even a 90. while the volume may not be much different, the length for open water swimming is much different. a 125 is 50% longer than a 90, and we would be ignorant to assume that such a difference isn't relevant.
 
slycoolman

slycoolman

Member
I invite you to give me some proof that
1)that single thread I found is not just a coincidence and with 0.5 ppm nitrites it almost certainly is
2) that reef-living tangs truly do need any more swimming space than do other deep-bodied reef fish
3) that being in a tank with a few gallons difference actually causes stress
4) really any case of a sick tang in a small tank that did not have more important contributing factors
 
N

nereef

Guest
it looks like you spent about 3 minutes looking at the disease forum here. one case is always open to a chance that it is coincidence. there are many other cases in the forum if you look, like i said, over a more extended period of time than a few minutes.
reef-living tangs is sort of an oxymoron. while some species inhabit areas of the world that have reefs, tangs aren't reef dwellers. they move in big groups in the open water until they come across a big patch of algae, then they move on.
like i said, it's not the volume (gallons) of a tank that matters. it is the open water swimming oportunity that matters. 6 foot tanks are 50% longer than 4 foot tanks. that makes a huge difference in swimming space.
tank size isn't the number one facter regarding fish pathogens. qt is absolutely the most important factor. the debate here is that swimming space is very important for a tangs health and developement.
 
m0nk

m0nk

Active Member

Originally Posted by SlyCoolman
http:///forum/post/2477471
It is suppressive (to others) and conceited to be a "tang police". People should realize that it is a new trend and has zero evidence. However, being a "tang police" and simply recommending reasonably sized tanks are two different things. I personally find 75 gallons to be a good minimum for adult smaller Zebrasoma and Ctenochaetus.
It is far better to take things by the genus or species level rather than the family. To state something such as "all tangs need five-feet, 100 gallons, et cetera" is a blanket statement. Rather, one should look at individual species and their habits. For instance, since Naso are larger and more wide ranging than, say, Zebrasoma, they, as adults, need proportionately larger tanks IMO. Zebrasoma or Ctenochaetus, being small, slow-swimming species, will be fine in 75 to 125 gallons, depending on the species.
The fact is, many, many people keep, and have kept, tangs in smaller tanks than we would like to recommend. It is not rare at all and success rates are very high. If we want the "best" life for all our fish we shouldn't be keeping them at all TBH because the ocean is bigger than all tanks combined.

The thing that really bugs me is that there is no evidence; ie, it is 100% based on morality, and it is wrong to shove that down people's throats. If "tang police" can come up with some real evidence, not just what they "think" or "hear", go ahead and preach it. But until then, think twice about flaming someone for keeping a fish in a tank you have "heard" is too small and give helpful advice for once.

I do follow what you're saying about Zebrasomas, since they don't grow to be as long, though they are still very active grazers and do need plenty of live rock. They also tend to be more aggressive in smaller tanks (such as a 75g) so I personally believe 90g is a safe starting point for those with plenty of room for movement and territoriality. The success rate of smaller tanks is not high, and I counter you to produce some evidence that they are.

I do try to keep the family in mind when stating things, Nasos get to be big enough in captivity that it's not one I'll even attempt in my 180.
As to the morality comment, that is 100% false.
I base my opinions on (as noted in my initial statement) my own personal experience, research, and the varied experiences of more established hobbyists. There are several books and publications out there that note the use of a 6' long tank for housing tangs. I would never give someone advice on something that I don't know from personal experience, nor would I preach or flame someone unless they were purposely doing something against the advice of many, many others and I personally would try not to be rude in any way while still trying to point out the flaws in someone's logic.
 
groupergenius

groupergenius

Active Member
I have been snorkeling and diving here in Florida since I was 10 years old. That's 34 years, 2000+ dives. I can tell you for a fact that tangs are ALLWAYS on the move.
I have collected hundreds of critters over the years for my many tanks. Tangs are by far the hardest to catch. Angels being one of the easiest of the open swimmers to catch. There is no comparison between the swimming needs of Tangs and any other fish in our tanks.
 
emm0909

emm0909

Member
Just ask people if they would want to live in a locked dorm room for the rest of their lives. Or if they would keep a dog in a kennel forever. People don't understand the space needed. Just because it can swim around in circles in there doesn't mean it's enough space. A shark will fit in a swimming pool but that doesn't mean it'll survive.
God I want to convert a swimming pool into a reef.
 
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