Am I right?

[bloke]

I have a 55 gallon tank that I got at xmas. I immediately started to get it up and running while reading and reading and finally have coninue to do more reading. I've put 40 lbs of live rock over the course of the last 3 weeks, 40 lbs of aragonite, 20 lbs of AragAlive and 5 damsels in it.
I've checked my water about every two days since and watched as the ammonia and nitrite levels have risen. They have now been at zero for three days with my nitrate around 80. My S.G. is 1.021 and my temp is consistently 77-78 degrees.
I am nervous if my tank has truly completed the cycle considering it has been less than 20 days. Is that possible? I have read repeatedly that it should take in the range of 4-6 weeks.
Am I ready to do a water change and consider myself cycled?

 

[hot883]

Welcome to the boards. Couple of questions;
1. Did you buy the lr local or was it shipped?
2. Can you take the damsels back to the LFS?
No you are not cycled yet and you need to read up on cycling with fish since this is a very outdated and CRUEL method. If the lfs sold you on this practice then you need not return there ever again. Barry

 

[phishin420]

Originally Posted by hot883
Welcome to the boards. Couple of questions;
1. Did you buy the lr local or was it shipped?
2. Can you take the damsels back to the LFS?
No you are not cycled yet and you need to read up on cycling with fish since this is a very outdated and CRUEL method. If the lfs sold you on this practice then you need not return there ever again. Barry
What does it matter if it is local or shipped? I didn't know there was any diffrence. I am using blueridge in my tank and I was told my tank cycled after about 32 days. Its been up for 5 months with no problems. jsut curious on the rock location.

 

[bloke]

- 15 lbs of the LR was bought locally, but to save money the remainder was bought mail order.
- I can take the damsels back for store credit
Well, I have read about fishless methods of cycling and asked about it, but they stated that nothing replaces mother nature cycling a tank.
Can you lead me the right direction of what I should read with perhaps a link or further assistance posted here?

 

[hot883]

LR makes a difference as if it is shipped it will have ALOT of die off on it and that will actually cycle the tank the natural way. If you are adding a product to do the cycling you will be greatly dissapointed.
Fishless cycle is the natural way. You can get all the info. on these forums that you need.
There will be alot of different opinions and you will have to decide on your own.
If you like an opinion of someone, just look at their tank for proof. ie. look at this link of the moderators tanks:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/247605/mods-full-tank-pics#post_1916796
No I am not saying that you have to be a mod. to be correct as there are alot of people on here that have more experience than I do, just saying, listen to someone that can back up what they are saying. Barry

 

[hot883]

Use the "search" button at the top and look up different items, like cycling a tank, 55 gallon etc.
Another reason to get the damsels out now is because they are EXTREMELY territorial when you add anything else and they get mean when they get older. Barry

 

[bloke]

Originally Posted by hot883
LR makes a difference as if it is shipped it will have ALOT of die off on it and that will actually cycle the tank the natural way. If you are adding a product to do the cycling you will be greatly dissapointed.
Barry - you're not helping me. Are you saying that the majority of my LR, being purchased and shipped, has enable my tank to cycle faster, the natural way and consequently, I AM INDEED complete in my nitrogen cycle?

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by Bloke
-
Well, I have read about fishless methods of cycling and asked about it, but they stated that nothing replaces mother nature cycling a tank.

OH, BUDDY. That line set me off! (not on you).
They said this because THEY make good money. Tell me, do the give you ALL the money back on the damsels? Damsel cycling is GOOD business. They make good money, and that is why they like it.
Say $5 damsel.
5x$5 = $25
They generously give you $2.50 back in credit...so since you are lucky they all survived (the store is not happy)...$12.50 back to you, which you spend on another fish.
They then resell the damsels at $5 a piece. Over and over. Not a bad little scheme.
ANY WAY YOU CYCLE A TANK IS "MOTHER NATURE."
Having LR with die off is mother nature. It is all NORMAL AND NATURAL. I would NEVER shop at that store again. That line has ticked me off!!! (again, not at you

)
The whole purpose of cycling is to get bacteria to grow and establish the biological filter. That bacteria was ALREADY on your live rock. All you needed was ammonia - a food source - and buying uncured (shipped) live rock provided that source in excess. Also, you can get it form excess fish food (cheap) a raw shrimp from the store (cheap), or damselfish (expensive)...I must step away from the thread.

 

[ophiura]

Couple of things though.
Your specific gravity is FATALLY LOW for any invertebrates. I would not add invertebrates unless your specific gravity is higher 1.025-1.026 (but 1.024 minimum).
You will need several water changes as your nitrates are quite high already.
It is possible to cycle quickly.
If you have concerns, once you do the water changes and remove the damsels...you may just want to feed the tank a few days with food. If there is no ammonia or nitrite, then I would consider the tank cycled.

 

[bloke]

Thanks - they charged my $6 a damsel and I see your point. Excuse my ignorance for being so new to the hobby, but it is from experienced hobbyist that I plan to avoid future pitfalls.
So, my tank is cycled and the LR shipped to me assisted in getting my tank to cycle in 3 weeks rather than 6 weeks?

 

[eaglewonj]

Oh I am a firm believer in the live rock cycle method now. I had put in food and some seed culture bacteria to get it started and it was takin a little bit. Went to the store, got my live rock, added it, and wham next day they whole darn cycle was there. Now all the levels dropped off except for ammonia which I am going to take care of by syphoning off the rotting food I put in there initially.

 

[hot883]

Originally Posted by Bloke
Thanks - they charged my $6 a damsel and I see your point. Excuse my ignorance for being so new to the hobby, but it is from experienced hobbyist that I plan to avoid future pitfalls.
So, my tank is cycled and the LR shipped to me assisted in getting my tank to cycle in 3 weeks rather than 6 weeks?
No what I am saying is that with the live rock shipped you have enough to start the cycle BUT a cycle takes 4-6 weeks to complete.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by Bloke
Thanks - they charged my $6 a damsel and I see your point. Excuse my ignorance for being so new to the hobby, but it is from experienced hobbyist that I plan to avoid future pitfalls.
So, my tank is cycled and the LR shipped to me assisted in getting my tank to cycle in 3 weeks rather than 6 weeks?

Truth be told, I sold damsels to cycle tanks before I really knew any better. Once I thought about it (and left the LFS business) I was like "doh!" But historically, that is how tanks were cycled. It is not REALLY bad or misleading (outdated, yes), but their ANSWER was.
In tanks using cured live rock, you may not see a cycle at all. Live rock dramatically speeds up the cycle because it provides a "head start" in the bacteria population. Tanks without it take longer to build up the bacterial populations from scratch, so there is a bigger lag time with ammonia before seeing nitrite, etc.

 

[bloke]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Your specific gravity is FATALLY LOW for any invertebrates. I would not add invertebrates unless your specific gravity is higher 1.025-1.026 (but 1.024 minimum).
I have no invertebrates at this time, but was aware of that need. I will say, to simply point the finger at the LFS, they specifically gave me a card which showed that my SG needs to remain between 1.020 - 1.022.
I see that they're wrong and have read many times that inverts require greater levels of SG, but why would they lead me the wrong way?
Thanks for your insights. I will perform a water change and let the tank sit for another week before adding any livestock to it. I plan to return the damsels and get whatever credit they offer.
Here is a picture of the tank:

 

[hot883]

LFS lead you wrong so they can sell you MORE. We do not want your money, we want you to be happy and learn from our mistakes or from what others had done. Barry
P.S. don't let them sell you a tang for that 55 either.

 

[ophiura]

Your LFS seems to be rather "traditional." THis specific gravity is commonly used in fish only systems, and you'll see the problem...
It was used because while fish can tolerate this level, parasites...specifically invertebrate parasites...can not. One of the best parasite treatments available (say for Ick) is low salinity.
SOOOO, while it is great for killing parasites, it is also a great way to kill any desirable inverts - snails, crabs, etc.
You will see many hydrometers still marked with this as the ideal range, and again, it is a lesson I learned the hard way.
My LFS still balks at this higher level, and I think they are a decent store. Fact is that 1.021 level is abnormally low. They have it in their minds that fish can't tolerate - oddly enough - a natural specific gravity in the 1.025 range (they can, of course).
As an aside, if they keep their invertebrate systems at this low level, I would discourage purchasing inverts from them. Even for short periods, this level is stressful, and I would predict a relatively higher mortality rate.

 

[hot883]

Bloke, thats a great looking tank and I think in the long run you will be very happy with it.

Barry

 

[bloke]

Well, I recieved the protein skimmer today and will add it to the system this afternoon. I will raise the SG as suggested and will be certain to use fishless methods of cycling in the future, but all being said, I am happy that my showtank cycled in such a sort period of time.
Thanks for the insights by all! I am forever in your debt and pay homage to the aquarium gods...

 

[ophiura]

I agree that you will be very happy with that tank

It is off to a very nice start. As for the quick cycle...that mother nature for that (meaning her live rock!)

 

[hot883]

Now when you start to add fish I would suggest asking on here if they will be ok in a 55 and also add them very slowly.
What type of tank were you going for? Agressive, reef, mixed etc? Barry