ammonia & nitrate on the rise?

[nm reef]

55 gal..cpr bac pac 2r..millenium 3000 for circulation(1 side has bio panel in place.....oter has lr rubble...cleanup crew..yellow tang(small)..dragon goby..tomato clown..coris wrasse..and 2 damn damsels....all tests except ammonia(.25) and nitrate are normal...nitrate has risen to 5 ppm.......help on finding why?....I feed once a day....twice a week I feed combination of frozen and rest of feeding is flake.......tank seems fine but starting to scare me with rise of ammonia and nitrate....help if ya can....

 

[beth]

Well, you don't say how old your tank is, whether you've added new livestock or LR lately or if you have done a "head count" on livestock resently. That info would help. I would say too that flake foods tend to be polluting unless you use sparingly.

 

[nm reef]

hmmmmm...tanks been up since 1/4/01...no new additions.....and no deaths...flake food is used but normally eaten within a few minutes......

 

[nm reef]

Curious....some posts have mentioned to remove the bio-panels from the millenium filter.....could these be the source of nitrate......should I simply remove the filters and just have the circulation?.....I've managed to make it this far and do not want a CRASH......but this is all I have to work with currently............developing plan and means of installing sump/refugium....but that is still in the works.......

 

[missycoral]

I would remove the bio, it can cause nitrate issues yes also even though flake food is being eaten there is still some that gets away and flake will raise as well and fast. you may wish to try fromula frozen foods like 1 and or 2 and see if that helps you. goodluck. Missy

 

[tonka]

Don't worry so much about the nitrates right now. You have to find out what's making your ammonia high. If you haven't added ANYTHING, I would cut back on feeding for a couple of days. Make sure your skimmer is producing. See if you can find anything dead.(Alot of times you can see what looks like "snot" around a decaying thing)And try smelling your water or anything you might think may be dieing. Then retest. See if you still have ammonia present.
[ April 24, 2001: Message edited by: Tonka ]
[ April 24, 2001: Message edited by: Tonka ]

 

[luke]

DON'T PULL OUT THE FILTER MEDIA (YET!!!!!). If you have a problem with ammonia the last thing you want to do is remove biologic bacteria!!! It will be a good idea once your amonia problem is solved. Tonka is 100% right, the nitrates are not a problem (now) and the flake food is overboard. You don't have to feed daily. I feed a lot less than that and my fish is (I only have one in the tank) alive and happy.
What type of test kit are you using? Have you checked the ammonia on more than one kit? Could very well be a faulty kit. Most important of all: How does your tank look? If yit looks good there may be no problem to speak of.
Luke

 

[adrian]

First of all make sure your ammonia test is correct. Some cheap tests, are just that and are often inaccurate. A slight trace trace can cause fish to stess and hide and corals to close tight. If there is indeed ammonia in your tank find out why as mentioned above. Do a water change, about %30, then test, then repeat if needed. The flake food will not directly cause ammonia, if frozen food does not get eaten you will get the same results. How thick is your sand bed and what type of substrate are you using? your tank may not be effectively breaking down wastes if there is not enough area, ie live rock and live sand, to harbor bacteria. I would remove the rubble and the bio grid from your filter, the rubble acts just like any biological media when put in that situation. Remove them one at a time, grid, then a week later rubble or vise versa. If your trates have just all of sudden started to rise after previously testing zero then you may have a nitrate factory on your hands. Either way the media in your filter will cause a factory eventually and you might as well pull them out now. Always observe your tank when making changes, how the fish are acting as well as testing. HTH

 

[nm reef]

Thx....to all.......salifert ammonia test is ordered and on the way...been using american pharm...always have been worried about its accuracy...lr(close to 100 lbs)..ls(40 lbs over about 2" of cc)...all critters seem ok.......not noted any major problems other than bubble anemone is closed and tomato is about to have a nervous breakdown....tested again today and all is well except ammonia is .5(do question the accuracy) and nitrate is holding at 5ppm...this evening I'll be doing 25% water change.....and will remove media from bio filter.....first rubble then panels.....skimmer is a cpr bacpac 2r and i get good amounts of fairly dry scum....empty about twice a week......will limit feedings to every other day...........all fish ...polyps....mushrooms.....leathers (2)...and closed brain seem fine....nothing out of line.........do have a question on formuls frozen foods....I do use them....but they don't seem to break down when thawed....I also use frozen brine and blood worms.....they break down quite well...do I need to cut up the formula 1&2 or leave it whole......and these foods are soaked in zoe........wasn't aware that flake foods were potential source of problems....again thx

 

[tnreef]

If your ammonia is at .5 ppm What are your nitrites at ?
IMO you will want to get your ammo and trites normal before you remove the filter media and plates.
Even if your tank was healthy this will increase ammonia and trites for a few days until bacteria can catch back up.
You could try ammo-lock then add some bacteria in a bottle to get things normal again. However the use of ammo-lock will test positive for ammonia for about a week.
I am afraid if you took the rubble out of your filter at this point your corals would suffer.
IMO Darryl GL

 

[tonka]

I think you should hold off on any bacteria additive. 90% of any bacteria product is dead. This may also raise your ammonia. Right now I would just do water changes and less food.(as ADRON and Luke said)As for removal of any media, I would also wait until you control the ammonia. Then when you do finally have ammonia to the right level, take a little at a time. I wouldn't remove all at once. Also just thought of something, do you have any prefilter sponges that could be VERY dirty? And maybe take a turkey baster and squirt water around the "dead spots" in the tank. Any food(liquid,flake,frozen,freeze dried)can cause ammonia to rise if overfed. Good luck

 

[adrian]

ONe more thing, I noticed you have CC this may also be the cause of your trates. CC acts just like bio media allowing nitrates to build up over time. You would be best with a fine layer of sand about 3-4" in depth. This will allow for little to no oxygen zones that will encourage denitrification. Meaning instead of the bio media breaking ammonia into nitrite and then nitrate it will also break the nitrtes into free nitrogen. This way you have no nitrates. I would also agree that you should get the ammonia down before removing anything. Get a cheap tetra kit until your salifert comes in. They are not as accurate as salifert but they are accurate enough to tell you whether there is indeed ammonia in your water. Good Luck

 

[nm reef]

thanks for all the replys......sincerely.....tonka....will do the turkey baster squirt...never considered that.....gr8 idea...also cuttin way bac on feedings..........any more probs and I'll be back......tytytyty