Amquel Plus in NON-Cycled QT tank. Do I just let it cycle?

jwhiteuwc

jwhiteuwc

Member
Ok, I somewhat asked this question before about Ammo-lock2, but got a answer back, but now I've seen that Amquel comes out with a product that will detoxify AMMONIA and NITRITES.
I had to do hypo on my fish because of a ICH break-out. This was a emergancy and my QT tank was NOT cycled.
It's been about 7 days now and the fish are looking great, but the tank is starting to cycle. I have been doing daily 20-40% water changed to keep the Ammonia down. I've also used Ammo-lock2 to detoxify it for now.
I quess I'm wondering if I quit using ammo-lock2 and start using Amquel Plus (detox's Ammon. and Nitrite), do I just let the tank cycle? All ammonia and nitrite (when it get's that far) should be detoxed (right?).
I know of the backlashes of using Amquel or any solution like that, but this is just my emergancy QT and I will dump all the water once finished and refill it with new water and let it cycle (live rock or shrimp) for any new addition in the future.
I guess I'm just curious as to what I should do?
Reason I'm asking is I'm leaving at the end of next month (at the end of the hypo proceedure) for 4-5 days and didn't want things go die off if something spiked.
Thanks everyone.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
If you conclude hypo before you leave, then why not just move the fish back into the display?
I really never used the product to help with a cycle. I think your best bet is to get the fish back into the display before you leave.
 
jwhiteuwc

jwhiteuwc

Member
2 days before I leave will be 28 in HYPO status at 1.009. My display tank will be fishless for 30days.
Will it be safe to put them back into the display by then?
I was hoping to go to 5 weeks to be save.
 
elfdoctors

elfdoctors

Active Member

Originally posted by jwhiteuwc
2 days before I leave will be 28 in HYPO status at 1.009. My display tank will be fishless for 30days.
Will it be safe to put them back into the display by then?

As long as there was a minimum of 21 days of hypo at 1.009 after the fish seemed cured, and the display was fishless for a month, it is safe to end your hyposalinity.
You need to raise your salinity much more slowly then you lowered it. Your options would be to start raising it early before you leave or letting it gradually creep up from evaporation while you are gone.
Leaving the tank fishless for longer is probably a smart idea. The other advantage of this approach is that you will be able to observe your fish longer. You would hate for your fish to get sick again shortly after they got back into your display tank.
I would recommend beginning to raise the salinity somewhat before you leave. This will serve to increase the alkalinity in your tankwater so the pH should be more stable while you are gone. You shouldn't be dealing with ammonia or nitrite problems that late into hyposalinity.
Perhaps raise your salinity up to 1.014 in the last two days before you leave. The salinity will increase somewhat (perhaps up to 1.016 while you are gone. You can raise the salinity over another 4-5 days when you return. If your fish still appear healthy then put them into the display after that.
 
jwhiteuwc

jwhiteuwc

Member
Great Idea.
One question though. I still will be fighting ammonia and nitrites because of the fequency in water changes, currect?
The QT tank is a uncycled tank. If I use amqul + (detoxes nitrite and ammonia)should I just let the cycle finish then?
Do I trust Amquel that much?????
 
elfdoctors

elfdoctors

Active Member
As long as there are detectable amounts of ammonia, bacteria which break this down will reproduce. Your dependence on Amquel should be decreasing as the tank gets established. I would try to wean your usage of this product, if able, particularly considering you will not be able to use this when you are gone. Small amounts of ammonia are better dealt with using water changes.
After the tank has been up a month, any cycle issues should be minimized. The higher salinity at the end will also lower the toxicity of any nitrites.
 
elfdoctors

elfdoctors

Active Member
It wouldn't hurt. The piece of live rock will become base rock. As long as you are not using medications also, this would probably be a good idea. Then try to cut down the Amquel if possible.
 
jwhiteuwc

jwhiteuwc

Member
So, just try and make the tank cycle, but make sure to keep Nitrites and Ammonia to a min. or non-toxic for sure?
Thanks.
Before I thought the point was NOT to have the tank complete it's cycle by doing 20-30% water changes every other day or so, now I should let it cycle?????
Your post to my other thread.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/111946/ammo-lock-2-in-qt-now-what-do-i-let-it-cycle
I guess I'm confused.... I in no way doubt your ways... I'm just making certain I understand correclty.
I appreciated everything you've taught me... I've taken great value in everything you've said, please keep the answers coming... it helps a great deal.
 
elfdoctors

elfdoctors

Active Member
Sorry for any confusion. Here's a quote taken directly from that post:
"Your tank will eventually cycle anyway and break down the fish wastes."
As bacteria populate your tank they will be able to break down the ammonia and other nitrogenous wastes that are produced. The purpose of trying to avoid a typical cycle was to prevent toxic levels of ammonia, etc..
It takes somewhat longer to cycle if there is not a lot of ammonia or nitrites for bacteria to break down. You started with water from a cycled tank which should speed up the process faster than if you started from scratch.
If you have had fish in the tank this long there should be reasonably healthy populations of bacteria in there. As you will not be able to continue the Amquel during your trip, I would try to decrease your dependency on it before you leave.
 
jwhiteuwc

jwhiteuwc

Member
Thanks for the clarrification.
I will proceed with the water changes and let the tank cycle.
I will also ween myself off the Amquel as soon as the level are not so toxic.
I know Amquel doesn't remove ammonia and nitrites, but rather just make them safer.
Thanks.
 
jwhiteuwc

jwhiteuwc

Member
Hrm... I read the bottle of Amquel and it says it REMOVES Amm. Nitrite and Nitrate... Hrm... I though it just Detoxes it.
Learn something every day.
Ammo-lock2 just detoxs ammo, will Amquel removes it....
Now I see why you are saying "wheen off amquel"
 
balistikb

balistikb

Member
I have a question to add. Buy doing a water change, wouldn't that increase your SG? I has the same thing, a QT that has high ammonia but at the same time I am trying to do hypo. How can I do a water change without effecting the hypo?
 
jwhiteuwc

jwhiteuwc

Member
Balistikb,
By doing water changes you are readding the water back as 1.009 and not at 1.025. When driaining the tank it removes salt and water so your water is constantly at 1.009. Just mix your water at 1.009 before you add it in.
By draining a tank it's not like evap. Evap, just removes water and leaves the salt behind, thats the cause of having higher salinity. You'll want to besure to top off will just water every day (1/2gallon or a few cups) to maintaine a constant 1.009.
Hope this answers your question.
 
elfdoctors

elfdoctors

Active Member

Originally posted by balistikb
How can I do a water change without effecting the hypo?
All you need to do is to have make water with the desired specific gravity before doing the water change.
Make sure it has aged for 24 hours before using it. You would use roughly 1/6-1/7 cups of salt per gallon of water. I would usually make up a batch of 30 gallons at a time and use only 5 at a time so that I wasn't constantly mixing saltwater.
 
balistikb

balistikb

Member
Yes it does. I am not mixing my own water but I am getting sea water from the lfs. I guess I will make my own batch by mixing my saltwater with RO water till I see the lever reach about 1.009. Once I get that mixed, will there be a problem with me keeping 5 gal for a few days?
 
elfdoctors

elfdoctors

Active Member

Originally posted by balistikb
I guess I will make my own batch by mixing my saltwater with RO water till I see the lever reach about 1.009. Once I get that mixed, will there be a problem with me keeping 5 gal for a few days?
Lower salinity saltwater is stable and can be kept for a extended periods. Adding freshwater to your saltwater will work. Depending on the salinity of your source, you would need to add ~1.5 gallons of freshwater to every gallon of saltwater.
Try not to do hyposalinity with a swing arm type hydrometer. (You mentioned a lever.) These are not accurate in this range. A refractometer or large lab-grade hydrometer is usually recommended.
 
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