sepulatian
Moderator
It is a product of bad circulation and not enough detrivores. Why did you buy two more fish to add into this situation?
You raised the SG in two days?
You raised the SG in two days?
An Easy and Cheap Way to Cure Ich (or ick) - My Adventure with 'Ich-Attack' by Kordon
- Thread starter ntracy
- Start date
ntracy
Member
I raised it in 3 days. Whether I buy the clowns now or in a month, the condition of my tank isn't going to change. I am not going to do a QT until I can afford to do it right, which probably won't be for a while. In the meantime my tank would have only two fish in it, and I wanted to get the clowns because my anemone was crawling the walls of my tank looking for a host. I got an anemone crab and the anemone hasn't moved since... hopefully he's happy.
sepulatian
Moderator
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2672318
I raised it in 3 days. Whether I buy the clowns now or in a month, the condition of my tank isn't going to change. I am not going to do a QT until I can afford to do it right, which probably won't be for a while. In the meantime my tank would have only two fish in it, and I wanted to get the clowns because my anemone was crawling the walls of my tank looking for a host. I got an anemone crab and the anemone hasn't moved since... hopefully he's happy.
Maybe my math is off, but you mentioned raising the SG at 8:30pm on Monday. At 6:30pm on Wednesday, today, you said the fish were back in their tanks. Assuming that you started the moment that you said that you were going to raise the SG and finished seconds before posting here tonight, that is 46 hours, which is just under two days. It is not my fish though. I hope that the garlic works out for you and your fish.
An anemone will not die without a clown to host. You could have waited on adding the pair. I hope that they will do fine for you though.
http:///forum/post/2672318
I raised it in 3 days. Whether I buy the clowns now or in a month, the condition of my tank isn't going to change. I am not going to do a QT until I can afford to do it right, which probably won't be for a while. In the meantime my tank would have only two fish in it, and I wanted to get the clowns because my anemone was crawling the walls of my tank looking for a host. I got an anemone crab and the anemone hasn't moved since... hopefully he's happy.
Maybe my math is off, but you mentioned raising the SG at 8:30pm on Monday. At 6:30pm on Wednesday, today, you said the fish were back in their tanks. Assuming that you started the moment that you said that you were going to raise the SG and finished seconds before posting here tonight, that is 46 hours, which is just under two days. It is not my fish though. I hope that the garlic works out for you and your fish.
An anemone will not die without a clown to host. You could have waited on adding the pair. I hope that they will do fine for you though.
T
tizzo
Guest
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2672318
I wanted to get the clowns because my anemone was crawling the walls of my tank looking for a host. .
Your anemone doesn't look FOR a host. He IS the host.
You would do better to start a new thread with your circumstances since most people will not read through 5 pages to get to any questions you may have.
There are a lot of people here with a lot of info. Everybody tries to help when they can.
http:///forum/post/2672318
I wanted to get the clowns because my anemone was crawling the walls of my tank looking for a host. .
Your anemone doesn't look FOR a host. He IS the host.
You would do better to start a new thread with your circumstances since most people will not read through 5 pages to get to any questions you may have.
There are a lot of people here with a lot of info. Everybody tries to help when they can.
T
tizzo
Guest
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2672318
I raised it in 3 days. Whether I buy the clowns now or in a month, the condition of my tank isn't going to change. I am not going to do a QT until I can afford to do it right, which probably won't be for a while. In the meantime my tank would have only two fish in it, and I wanted to get the clowns because my anemone was crawling the walls of my tank looking for a host. I got an anemone crab and the anemone hasn't moved since... hopefully he's happy.
Well... What I am reading is...
My tank has issues that I cannot afford to fix, and I don't wanna see only 2 fish in there with ick, so I decided to buy more.
You say you cannot afford to do it right in the same post that you buy new clowns??
Either way, what you do with your tank is your business, and honestly I don't care, but don't defend your actions with inconsistancies. Just don't defend them at all.
You had 2 options. To eliminate the disease or to control the disease.
I get why you went from one to the other, but your adding more tankmates before you even started "controlling" the ick you have. And just because you thought looking at only 2 fish would be... boring?
I'm not flaming you, really I'm not. As I sit here, my eyebrows are literally furrowed into a question type expression, cause I cannot make sense outa this.
Then I find solace in the fact that, I don't hafta make sense. It's not my tank.
But just to clarify. At last count, you had 9 fish. Are you saying they all died but 2?
http:///forum/post/2672318
I raised it in 3 days. Whether I buy the clowns now or in a month, the condition of my tank isn't going to change. I am not going to do a QT until I can afford to do it right, which probably won't be for a while. In the meantime my tank would have only two fish in it, and I wanted to get the clowns because my anemone was crawling the walls of my tank looking for a host. I got an anemone crab and the anemone hasn't moved since... hopefully he's happy.
Well... What I am reading is...
My tank has issues that I cannot afford to fix, and I don't wanna see only 2 fish in there with ick, so I decided to buy more.
You say you cannot afford to do it right in the same post that you buy new clowns??
Either way, what you do with your tank is your business, and honestly I don't care, but don't defend your actions with inconsistancies. Just don't defend them at all.
You had 2 options. To eliminate the disease or to control the disease.
I get why you went from one to the other, but your adding more tankmates before you even started "controlling" the ick you have. And just because you thought looking at only 2 fish would be... boring?
I'm not flaming you, really I'm not. As I sit here, my eyebrows are literally furrowed into a question type expression, cause I cannot make sense outa this.
Then I find solace in the fact that, I don't hafta make sense. It's not my tank.
But just to clarify. At last count, you had 9 fish. Are you saying they all died but 2?
ntracy
Member
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2672564
You say you cannot afford to do it right in the same post that you buy new clowns??
2 clowns at $22 = $44+tax.... a lot cheaper than a QT. Yes I cannot afford to do a 30+ gallon cycled QT with proper filtration (skimmer at least $100, high flow powerheads $30x4, etc)
Not to mention the tank has been void of fish for two weeks... the ich isn't gone, but probably not heavily infested either
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2672564
Either way, what you do with your tank is your business, and honestly I don't care, but don't defend your actions with inconsistancies. Just don't defend them at all.
You had 2 options. To eliminate the disease or to control the disease.
I tried to eliminate the disease, and when i failed at my attempt, I decided it was better to control it.
Besides what is there to defend? And why would I need to defend anything if I'm not being put on trial? I feel like I've been shunned by you guys because of this... but I also feel like I went on a wild goose chase for these freakin' fish. Yes, a wild goose chase. And I lost all of my favorite fish because of it. I don't even freaking like the hippo tangs, and they started this whole thing! The twinsopt, the clown goby and the black percula ALL died. ALL my favorites.
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2672564
I get why you went from one to the other, but your adding more tankmates before you even started "controlling" the ick you have. And just because you thought looking at only 2 fish would be... boring?
Regardless of the tank's inhabitants, I've been adding garlic to my 34 daily... started weeks before I even got my QT. Isn't that the recommended form of controlling the disease? Tell me how I've failed at "controlling" the ich with this method.
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2672564
Then I find solace in the fact that, I don't hafta make sense. It's not my tank.
But just to clarify. At last count, you had 9 fish. Are you saying they all died but 2?
Read my 3:30 quote from today.
Doing a QT on less than $100 is a terrible idea. In the future, if someone new here doesn't have the money to do it right, don't even push for it. You are killing more fish by doing it wrong and if garlic controls it, suggest that until they can afford to rid the tank of ich THE RIGHT WAY (which ain't cheap!!!). I lost more fish because of the experimental QT than by strengthening their immune systems to deal with and fight the disease in their own environment. I truly believe that.
Also, now that i'm more informed about this hobby, I think it's a little excessive to constantly keep a QT running.... especially if you're not consistently adding fish. you have a 99% chance the ich is in the water your fish is in already, because God knows which single fish brought the ich to the LFS and infested everything with it.
Let's put it another way... does your house have hospital-quality filtration? and if someone comes into your house who is sick, do you confine them to a closet for 4 weeks before you'll let them into your home? I'd rather strengthen their immune systems than stress them out with a circus ride from tank to tank, with a rug-yanking salinity change, which is clearly stressful for the fish too... and for them to live in 1.009 for 4 weeks is not helping them either.
I think when I can afford to turn my tank into a cleanroom for the fish, then I will, but for now I'm controlling the ich with garlic.
http:///forum/post/2672564
You say you cannot afford to do it right in the same post that you buy new clowns??
2 clowns at $22 = $44+tax.... a lot cheaper than a QT. Yes I cannot afford to do a 30+ gallon cycled QT with proper filtration (skimmer at least $100, high flow powerheads $30x4, etc)
Not to mention the tank has been void of fish for two weeks... the ich isn't gone, but probably not heavily infested either
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2672564
Either way, what you do with your tank is your business, and honestly I don't care, but don't defend your actions with inconsistancies. Just don't defend them at all.
You had 2 options. To eliminate the disease or to control the disease.
I tried to eliminate the disease, and when i failed at my attempt, I decided it was better to control it.
Besides what is there to defend? And why would I need to defend anything if I'm not being put on trial? I feel like I've been shunned by you guys because of this... but I also feel like I went on a wild goose chase for these freakin' fish. Yes, a wild goose chase. And I lost all of my favorite fish because of it. I don't even freaking like the hippo tangs, and they started this whole thing! The twinsopt, the clown goby and the black percula ALL died. ALL my favorites.
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2672564
I get why you went from one to the other, but your adding more tankmates before you even started "controlling" the ick you have. And just because you thought looking at only 2 fish would be... boring?
Regardless of the tank's inhabitants, I've been adding garlic to my 34 daily... started weeks before I even got my QT. Isn't that the recommended form of controlling the disease? Tell me how I've failed at "controlling" the ich with this method.
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2672564
Then I find solace in the fact that, I don't hafta make sense. It's not my tank.
But just to clarify. At last count, you had 9 fish. Are you saying they all died but 2?
Read my 3:30 quote from today.
Doing a QT on less than $100 is a terrible idea. In the future, if someone new here doesn't have the money to do it right, don't even push for it. You are killing more fish by doing it wrong and if garlic controls it, suggest that until they can afford to rid the tank of ich THE RIGHT WAY (which ain't cheap!!!). I lost more fish because of the experimental QT than by strengthening their immune systems to deal with and fight the disease in their own environment. I truly believe that.
Also, now that i'm more informed about this hobby, I think it's a little excessive to constantly keep a QT running.... especially if you're not consistently adding fish. you have a 99% chance the ich is in the water your fish is in already, because God knows which single fish brought the ich to the LFS and infested everything with it.
Let's put it another way... does your house have hospital-quality filtration? and if someone comes into your house who is sick, do you confine them to a closet for 4 weeks before you'll let them into your home? I'd rather strengthen their immune systems than stress them out with a circus ride from tank to tank, with a rug-yanking salinity change, which is clearly stressful for the fish too... and for them to live in 1.009 for 4 weeks is not helping them either.
I think when I can afford to turn my tank into a cleanroom for the fish, then I will, but for now I'm controlling the ich with garlic.
R
rcreations
Guest
Just a little suggestion on the garlic. Always use freshly squeezed garlic and only let the food soak in for 5-10 minutes. Garlic starts loosing its properties after 15 minutes. What I do is put a piece of frozen food in a cup, add the freshly squeezed garlic juice, then add just a little water from the tank. Let it sit for 5-10 minutes and then pour the whole thing in the tank.
Another thing to help fight off the ick is a good diet for your fish. That means no flakes or pellets, only a variety of frozen food. If you want, you can make your own which is cheaper in the long run than buying those tiny frozen cubes. Also add vitamins like Selcon to the food. Do everything possible to build up their immunity.
I remember reading you have a cleaner shrimp? If you do, that's good. It'll help get the ich off your fish.
These things combined will help you control the ick in your tank.
Another thing to help fight off the ick is a good diet for your fish. That means no flakes or pellets, only a variety of frozen food. If you want, you can make your own which is cheaper in the long run than buying those tiny frozen cubes. Also add vitamins like Selcon to the food. Do everything possible to build up their immunity.
I remember reading you have a cleaner shrimp? If you do, that's good. It'll help get the ich off your fish.
These things combined will help you control the ick in your tank.
T
tizzo
Guest
I think you misread my comments. They weren't meant to sound hostile, but I think you read them that way.
You have to understand that way back when I asked you which you wanted to do, control or eliminate, we were giving advice based on your answer.
Had you said control, we would have went that route.
For my "defense" comment. I didn't mean it as in, on trial, but you took it that way. I try to be very careful with my wording but people get the wrong message no matter what I write.
I was trying to say "making excuses" without sounding mean.
You have a lot of inconsistancies in your posts, you never posted your parameters, but we see you have the test kits for it, and you did go out and purchase new QT stuff, I believe it was safe to say that you wanted a cure.
Next time, we will try to be on the same page better.
You have to understand that way back when I asked you which you wanted to do, control or eliminate, we were giving advice based on your answer.
Had you said control, we would have went that route.
For my "defense" comment. I didn't mean it as in, on trial, but you took it that way. I try to be very careful with my wording but people get the wrong message no matter what I write.
I was trying to say "making excuses" without sounding mean.
You have a lot of inconsistancies in your posts, you never posted your parameters, but we see you have the test kits for it, and you did go out and purchase new QT stuff, I believe it was safe to say that you wanted a cure.
Next time, we will try to be on the same page better.
bioneck47
Member
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2672833
2 clowns at $22 = $44+tax.... a lot cheaper than a QT.
LOL... This is just too funny
adding more fish to your current situation is a great idea!
http:///forum/post/2672833
2 clowns at $22 = $44+tax.... a lot cheaper than a QT.
LOL... This is just too funny
sepulatian
Moderator
Doing a QT on less than $100 is a terrible idea. In the future, if someone new here doesn't have the money to do it right, don't even push for it. You are killing more fish by doing it wrong and if garlic controls it, suggest that until they can afford to rid the tank of ich THE RIGHT WAY (which ain't cheap!!!). I lost more fish because of the experimental QT than by strengthening their immune systems to deal with and fight the disease in their own environment. I truly believe that.
No, having a display tank that is 34 and 14 gallons, with a hippo in each, along with MANY other fish is a bad idea. You never quarantined, then overstocked your tanks with fish that won't do well for a few months in those conditions. Now you are blaming us? Do you honestly think that their immune system will improve without treatment in those conditions?
Also, now that i'm more informed about this hobby, I think it's a little excessive to constantly keep a QT running.... especially if you're not consistently adding fish. you have a 99% chance the ich is in the water your fish is in already, because God knows which single fish brought the ich to the LFS and infested everything with it.
What is this even supposed to mean? Seriously? God does choose everything. I agree. He chooses to put fleas on a dog. Fleas can be gotten rid of as easily as ich can. Treat the source. It isn't hard to do.
Let's put it another way... does your house have hospital-quality filtration? and if someone comes into your house who is sick, do you confine them to a closet for 4 weeks before you'll let them into your home? I'd rather strengthen their immune systems than stress them out with a circus ride from tank to tank, with a rug-yanking salinity change, which is clearly stressful for the fish too... and for them to live in 1.009 for 4 weeks is not helping them either.
Ich is a parasite, not a virus. Strengthening their immune system is great. I am sorry to say that it isn't going to happen in your small tanks with the fish that you have. All of this "reef safe" and garlic info that you are looking toward works if you have a lightly stocked tank in excellent condition. Hyposalinity is not even close to stressful. It is soothing to the fish. Read up on it.
I think when I can afford to turn my tank into a cleanroom for the fish, then I will, but for now I'm controlling the ich with garlic.
Good luck with it.
No, having a display tank that is 34 and 14 gallons, with a hippo in each, along with MANY other fish is a bad idea. You never quarantined, then overstocked your tanks with fish that won't do well for a few months in those conditions. Now you are blaming us? Do you honestly think that their immune system will improve without treatment in those conditions?
Also, now that i'm more informed about this hobby, I think it's a little excessive to constantly keep a QT running.... especially if you're not consistently adding fish. you have a 99% chance the ich is in the water your fish is in already, because God knows which single fish brought the ich to the LFS and infested everything with it.
What is this even supposed to mean? Seriously? God does choose everything. I agree. He chooses to put fleas on a dog. Fleas can be gotten rid of as easily as ich can. Treat the source. It isn't hard to do.
Let's put it another way... does your house have hospital-quality filtration? and if someone comes into your house who is sick, do you confine them to a closet for 4 weeks before you'll let them into your home? I'd rather strengthen their immune systems than stress them out with a circus ride from tank to tank, with a rug-yanking salinity change, which is clearly stressful for the fish too... and for them to live in 1.009 for 4 weeks is not helping them either.
Ich is a parasite, not a virus. Strengthening their immune system is great. I am sorry to say that it isn't going to happen in your small tanks with the fish that you have. All of this "reef safe" and garlic info that you are looking toward works if you have a lightly stocked tank in excellent condition. Hyposalinity is not even close to stressful. It is soothing to the fish. Read up on it.
I think when I can afford to turn my tank into a cleanroom for the fish, then I will, but for now I'm controlling the ich with garlic.
Good luck with it.
bioneck47
Member
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2672833
Ich is a parasite, not a virus. Strengthening their immune system is great. I am sorry to say that it isn't going to happen in your small tanks with the fish that you have. All of this "reef safe" and garlic info that you are looking toward works if you have a lightly stocked tank in excellent condition. Hyposalinity is not even close to stressful. It is soothing to the fish. Read up on it.
I couldn't agree any more and adding more fish is just gonna make ntracy's situation worst.
http:///forum/post/2672833
Ich is a parasite, not a virus. Strengthening their immune system is great. I am sorry to say that it isn't going to happen in your small tanks with the fish that you have. All of this "reef safe" and garlic info that you are looking toward works if you have a lightly stocked tank in excellent condition. Hyposalinity is not even close to stressful. It is soothing to the fish. Read up on it.
I couldn't agree any more and adding more fish is just gonna make ntracy's situation worst.
R
rcreations
Guest
I wouldn't say hypo is soothing for the fish. Long term it can be damaging. Here's a quote from reefkeeping:
...keeping fish in low salinity means that they don't "flush" their kidneys sufficiently. After long-term exposure, this can cause kidney failure and kill the fish (Shimek, pers. comm..)
...keeping fish in low salinity means that they don't "flush" their kidneys sufficiently. After long-term exposure, this can cause kidney failure and kill the fish (Shimek, pers. comm..)
sepulatian
Moderator
Originally Posted by RCreations
http:///forum/post/2675131
I wouldn't say hypo is soothing for the fish. Long term it can be damaging. Here's a quote from reefkeeping:
...keeping fish in low salinity means that they don't "flush" their kidneys sufficiently. After long-term exposure, this can cause kidney failure and kill the fish (Shimek, pers. comm..)
Right, if they are kept in hyposaline conditions long term. That isn't what was suggested. If you read further in that same article, or any article for that matter, you will find that hyposalinity is shown to reduce stress and speed up the metabolism of fish.
ntracy, I am glad that they are not showing spots. Remember the life cycle of ich though.
http:///forum/post/2675131
I wouldn't say hypo is soothing for the fish. Long term it can be damaging. Here's a quote from reefkeeping:
...keeping fish in low salinity means that they don't "flush" their kidneys sufficiently. After long-term exposure, this can cause kidney failure and kill the fish (Shimek, pers. comm..)
Right, if they are kept in hyposaline conditions long term. That isn't what was suggested. If you read further in that same article, or any article for that matter, you will find that hyposalinity is shown to reduce stress and speed up the metabolism of fish.
ntracy, I am glad that they are not showing spots. Remember the life cycle of ich though.
al mc
Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2675348
Right, if they are kept in hyposaline conditions long term. That isn't what was suggested. If you read further in that same article, or any article for that matter, you will find that hyposalinity is shown to reduce stress and speed up the metabolism of fish. .
This is absolutely correct. The fish in hypo has less of an osmotic gradient (The amount of salt/SG it lives in versus the amount of salt/SG in it's body) to have to deal with thereby reducing the calories/energy it needs to expend on keeping this gradient intact. The energy it saves can be utilized to fight the Ich parasite or repair the primary damage done by the parasite or the secondary bacterial infection that many times occurs.
Over prolonged periods of time (months) the osmotic gradient in the kidneys
can become impaired in the hypo environment and when the fish attempts to go back into 'normal' salinity the kidneys could fail.
http:///forum/post/2675348
Right, if they are kept in hyposaline conditions long term. That isn't what was suggested. If you read further in that same article, or any article for that matter, you will find that hyposalinity is shown to reduce stress and speed up the metabolism of fish. .
This is absolutely correct. The fish in hypo has less of an osmotic gradient (The amount of salt/SG it lives in versus the amount of salt/SG in it's body) to have to deal with thereby reducing the calories/energy it needs to expend on keeping this gradient intact. The energy it saves can be utilized to fight the Ich parasite or repair the primary damage done by the parasite or the secondary bacterial infection that many times occurs.
Over prolonged periods of time (months) the osmotic gradient in the kidneys
can become impaired in the hypo environment and when the fish attempts to go back into 'normal' salinity the kidneys could fail.
bioneck47
Member
Originally Posted by ntracy
http:///forum/post/2675337
It's been 4 days and none of my fish have shown any outbreak of ich. Even though very little time has passed, I am hopeful that it will continue this way.
cool, I really hope everything turns out O.k.
http:///forum/post/2675337
It's been 4 days and none of my fish have shown any outbreak of ich. Even though very little time has passed, I am hopeful that it will continue this way.
cool, I really hope everything turns out O.k.
kellenr
Member
WOW, this thread turned out great, what a soap opera! (No offense ntracy).
I just need to say something here, I'm gonna get criticized for it but sorry it's just my opinion...
I don't run a QT, I don't feel it's necessary for the 'average aquarist' to go through all these die-hard measures. If you're gung-ho and have 20 tanks with conditions more sterile than your own kitchen table than I can say "of course you'd have a QT" and you should. But I truly believe it is a huge burden to set one up properly for the average beginner and to safely perform advanced 'hospital' treatment on fish. I don't think this whole pushing everyone to use a QT just because you decide to is the 'best suited option' for everyone.
I know all the benefits of a QT and YES, of course, a QT is a great step to the acclimation process and provides a great place to treat fish. But for most people, (as in people who don't live in a fish store), who just have a nice simple 'living room tank', I TRULY believe a QT is not the best option unless they are decisive on having one as is on their own.
I really really really hate to say this.... but, I saw this coming. To have all of your fish die over this process is because of all the stress they underwent over the last few weeks. Ntracy, hats off to you, you did a fantastic job with 'trying to do the right thing' and listening almost to a "T" with what the advanced people on here coached you with. I know a lot of this is all new to you and you may not have made the right decisions with stocking the tank etc. but I really think you had good intentions in mind and were just trying to listen to all the advice in this big mess of confusion. One thing you gotta remember though is this is a just a Board with people's opinions, most people have LOTS of experience which is great, some people are clueless just posting something just to post, but take it for what its worth. If you don't feel like you want to do something, or want to try another way then do what you feel. 'There's more than 1 way to skin a cat', that applies to this hobby as well and I've seen things done that people said "can never be done, no way" and I've seen people do things successfully that I've tried and wasn't successful with. You need to just figure out what works for YOU. Develop your own methods and techniques, take everyones advice for a good base to start with but then you'll learn to adjust to what suits you.
No matter what you do, people are always gonna criticize you. Someone always has their 2-cents to throw into something. Even if you did everything 100% correct, someone is always going to be trying to think of something additional they can critique on. Thats just life, with opinions a dime a dozen.
Like I said earlier, I saw this coming, way back when you posted that you went to Wal-Mart and got all the stuff and were going to start the hypo.
I'm sure you know all about ick now, Tangs are obviously Ick-Magnets and are usually the problem for everyones tank. One thing though you can always try (I've successfully done it, but like I said, I can't speak for others experiences), is to do "nothing". Ich attacks 'weak' fish, if your fish are healthy and happy they will naturally repel Ich.
The theory here is as follows: Your fish breaks out with Ich. Usually just after adding him or making some other big change to your tank. Well trying to catch all of your fish is going to put a huge stress on your whole tank. Now not just the 1 fish has it, but it starts to spread because the other fish got super stressed and their immune was down. Once you finally get them all into QT you'll probably realize multiple fish have ich now. Then you further stress them out by screwing with all kinds of additional levels etc.. Before you know it fish are dying, quite rapidly at that. (This applies to your case ntracy).
If you 'do nothing' you have to figure there is a little risk involved but worth it in my opinion for the average to beginner hobbyist. All you need to do is make sure your fish are as healthy and happy as possible. Meaning food, water quality, temperature, SG, light and no stress from tankmates. The ich will begin to fall-off the sick fish, as you know, during the stages and enter the water column free-floating. Well as your sick fish begins to get healthy and avoids stress, it starts fighting off the ick more. The ick falls off and isn't able to attach itself again because the fish is beginning to repel it. After a few weeks it'll get to the point where the fish is back to normal condition and healthy enough to fight off ick and prevent re-infestation. Your other fish won't be jeopardized because of all the QT stress and the sick fish won't be either.
(continued below)
I just need to say something here, I'm gonna get criticized for it but sorry it's just my opinion...
I don't run a QT, I don't feel it's necessary for the 'average aquarist' to go through all these die-hard measures. If you're gung-ho and have 20 tanks with conditions more sterile than your own kitchen table than I can say "of course you'd have a QT" and you should. But I truly believe it is a huge burden to set one up properly for the average beginner and to safely perform advanced 'hospital' treatment on fish. I don't think this whole pushing everyone to use a QT just because you decide to is the 'best suited option' for everyone.
I know all the benefits of a QT and YES, of course, a QT is a great step to the acclimation process and provides a great place to treat fish. But for most people, (as in people who don't live in a fish store), who just have a nice simple 'living room tank', I TRULY believe a QT is not the best option unless they are decisive on having one as is on their own.
I really really really hate to say this.... but, I saw this coming. To have all of your fish die over this process is because of all the stress they underwent over the last few weeks. Ntracy, hats off to you, you did a fantastic job with 'trying to do the right thing' and listening almost to a "T" with what the advanced people on here coached you with. I know a lot of this is all new to you and you may not have made the right decisions with stocking the tank etc. but I really think you had good intentions in mind and were just trying to listen to all the advice in this big mess of confusion. One thing you gotta remember though is this is a just a Board with people's opinions, most people have LOTS of experience which is great, some people are clueless just posting something just to post, but take it for what its worth. If you don't feel like you want to do something, or want to try another way then do what you feel. 'There's more than 1 way to skin a cat', that applies to this hobby as well and I've seen things done that people said "can never be done, no way" and I've seen people do things successfully that I've tried and wasn't successful with. You need to just figure out what works for YOU. Develop your own methods and techniques, take everyones advice for a good base to start with but then you'll learn to adjust to what suits you.
No matter what you do, people are always gonna criticize you. Someone always has their 2-cents to throw into something. Even if you did everything 100% correct, someone is always going to be trying to think of something additional they can critique on. Thats just life, with opinions a dime a dozen.
Like I said earlier, I saw this coming, way back when you posted that you went to Wal-Mart and got all the stuff and were going to start the hypo.
I'm sure you know all about ick now, Tangs are obviously Ick-Magnets and are usually the problem for everyones tank. One thing though you can always try (I've successfully done it, but like I said, I can't speak for others experiences), is to do "nothing". Ich attacks 'weak' fish, if your fish are healthy and happy they will naturally repel Ich.
The theory here is as follows: Your fish breaks out with Ich. Usually just after adding him or making some other big change to your tank. Well trying to catch all of your fish is going to put a huge stress on your whole tank. Now not just the 1 fish has it, but it starts to spread because the other fish got super stressed and their immune was down. Once you finally get them all into QT you'll probably realize multiple fish have ich now. Then you further stress them out by screwing with all kinds of additional levels etc.. Before you know it fish are dying, quite rapidly at that. (This applies to your case ntracy).
If you 'do nothing' you have to figure there is a little risk involved but worth it in my opinion for the average to beginner hobbyist. All you need to do is make sure your fish are as healthy and happy as possible. Meaning food, water quality, temperature, SG, light and no stress from tankmates. The ich will begin to fall-off the sick fish, as you know, during the stages and enter the water column free-floating. Well as your sick fish begins to get healthy and avoids stress, it starts fighting off the ick more. The ick falls off and isn't able to attach itself again because the fish is beginning to repel it. After a few weeks it'll get to the point where the fish is back to normal condition and healthy enough to fight off ick and prevent re-infestation. Your other fish won't be jeopardized because of all the QT stress and the sick fish won't be either.
(continued below)
kellenr
Member
...
My case: I added a Blue Tang to my tank a few months back, within about a week I saw he was getting ick. I knew about the whole QT option and looked into chemical treatment and decided against that as well. A friend of mine, and LFS owner, told me I could try 'not treating it' and keeping an eye on my tank. I had 2 false.p. clowns, sixline wrasse & lawnmower blenny, all in good health. The tang went thru the whole ick cycle, sometimes ok sometimes bad, non of my other fish got it. I kept all my params and conditions as perfect as I could. Finally I noticed he wasn't contracting the ick anymore, therefore the ich probably hung out in the water for several weeks dying off slowly since all the fish were too healthy to infect. My Tang has been ick-free for about 3 months now. (And I'm sure someone is gonna tell me that its 'still hiding somewhere' and how he's 'gonna get it again'. lol).
Anyway that worked out for me, maybe it was luck, but I've heard of several others that just let it ride out and did their best to maintain optimal conditions in the tank. They were also successful and have never had another ich outbreak since then (and that was years ago).
Good job on trying to 'do what you were told was the right thing'. But I agree that I think it was all a little overboard with WAY WAY TOO MUCH ADVICE on everything. You CAN get by with no QT and you're very right, you don't want a QT running all the time in your house with 'nothing' ever in it until you're gonna add new fish. I think its better suited for the advanced hobbyist or people that have tons of house space dedicated to fish tanks. Even 'starting it when needed' is a huge pain and you still wont have it ready in time when you need it.
What a huge mess, sorry you had to go through it. And no disrespect to anyone helping out and advising a QT, it IS the best bet sure fire option, but with experience and if its done correctly. For some people, especially beginners, its not always a feasible amenity and may even make the matter worse, or ultimately kill your fish when they may of survived the ich outbreak. Just explaining 'my' personal experience and the opinion I developed. Thanks everyone.
My case: I added a Blue Tang to my tank a few months back, within about a week I saw he was getting ick. I knew about the whole QT option and looked into chemical treatment and decided against that as well. A friend of mine, and LFS owner, told me I could try 'not treating it' and keeping an eye on my tank. I had 2 false.p. clowns, sixline wrasse & lawnmower blenny, all in good health. The tang went thru the whole ick cycle, sometimes ok sometimes bad, non of my other fish got it. I kept all my params and conditions as perfect as I could. Finally I noticed he wasn't contracting the ick anymore, therefore the ich probably hung out in the water for several weeks dying off slowly since all the fish were too healthy to infect. My Tang has been ick-free for about 3 months now. (And I'm sure someone is gonna tell me that its 'still hiding somewhere' and how he's 'gonna get it again'. lol).
Anyway that worked out for me, maybe it was luck, but I've heard of several others that just let it ride out and did their best to maintain optimal conditions in the tank. They were also successful and have never had another ich outbreak since then (and that was years ago).
Good job on trying to 'do what you were told was the right thing'. But I agree that I think it was all a little overboard with WAY WAY TOO MUCH ADVICE on everything. You CAN get by with no QT and you're very right, you don't want a QT running all the time in your house with 'nothing' ever in it until you're gonna add new fish. I think its better suited for the advanced hobbyist or people that have tons of house space dedicated to fish tanks. Even 'starting it when needed' is a huge pain and you still wont have it ready in time when you need it.
What a huge mess, sorry you had to go through it. And no disrespect to anyone helping out and advising a QT, it IS the best bet sure fire option, but with experience and if its done correctly. For some people, especially beginners, its not always a feasible amenity and may even make the matter worse, or ultimately kill your fish when they may of survived the ich outbreak. Just explaining 'my' personal experience and the opinion I developed. Thanks everyone.
R
rcreations
Guest
KellenR, that is such a great post. This should be a sticky so beginners won't jump on the QT bandwagon and end up killing most of their fish. Now don't everyone get upset, I do believe a QT is a good thing but not for beginners who are just starting to learn about keeping fish. Add a QT on top of that and it's a recipe for disaster. And I really think all the advanced people here should stop suggesting QT to every single person who posts of an ich problem. A QT is not for everyone so you should recommend it on a case by case basis. For one, a QT should NEVER be recommended if someone just found ich on their fish, yet they don't even have a QT yet. Obviously they can't set one up properly and cycle it in time and they'll be nervous and afraid the fish will die and will try to set up the QT as fast as possible and it'll result in lots of dead fish. Fish that wouldn't have died in the DT, even with ich. Anyway, we should all use common sense and not generalize that one thing is good for everyone.
ntracy
Member
KellenR - Where have you been my whole life???
I wish I had heard your opinion before I went and blew money in a futile effort to solve something that could have easily been a success in plenty of other ways. I am having success with my tank so far. No overcrowding (currently 3 fish - flushed $44 worth of 2 clowns down the toilet the other day because brooklynella got the best of them), I actually love corals a lot more and have loaded my tank with it (but only one anemone - I know better). I've got tons of zoanthids, frogspawn, brain coral, goniopora, long tentacle plate, bubble coral, star polyps - in many ways the corals and inverts are easier to care for than the friggin fish! I may forget the whole fish thing altogether and just keep chromis and a few wrasses. they're both pretty hardy.
I have considered selling my tank and leaving this hobby just because of this forum. Some of the people on here are ruthless and borderline berating. Then there are people like you and -- who make more sense. You don't freak out whenever you see a spot one of your fish. I'm glad I had this experience, because it shows me that I don't have to be over-the-top money spender to enjoy this hobby. Clearly I'm one of the more casual ones.
I have considered selling my tank and leaving this hobby just because of this forum. Some of the people on here are ruthless and borderline berating. Then there are people like you and -- who make more sense. You don't freak out whenever you see a spot one of your fish. I'm glad I had this experience, because it shows me that I don't have to be over-the-top money spender to enjoy this hobby. Clearly I'm one of the more casual ones.