an interesting article about Atlantic Ocean lionfish

lion_crazz

Active Member
I just read a very interesting article about lionfish being in the Atlantic Ocean. Hofstra University author Todd R. Gardner wrote the article about how he found a tiny lionfish off the shore of Long Island in 2001 (pics are below). That year, there were another 34 sightings in the Atlantic, at 12 different locations, near North Carolina, Florida, and off of New York. It was funny, he said in the article that his professor didn't even believe he found the fish. He wrote, "My professor even expressed some doubt as he accused me of buying the fish and smuggling it out to the beach in my bathing suit." He also sent emails to many marine biologists he knew, and, "Almost all of them said essentially the same thing: 'Lionfish don’t live in the Atlantic ocean. Obviously, you’ve caught someone’s released pet.” A few were more along the lines of: “Are you sure it was a lionfish? Maybe it was a sculpin or a sea robin." The author knew that there was no way this was a released pet, as this fish looked as if it was just born. No one releases young lions into the wild, just large ones that they can no longer care for.
The author then wrote, "By now (2006), lionfish sightings along the Atlantic coast have become so commonplace that attempts to count them have become futile."
The group of divers who were out with Gardner all hypothesized that the fish either was spawned somewhere in the Atlantic from hobbyiests' released adult lions, or transported here as a larva in ballast water in a ship.
I found this last paragraph very informative, so I decided to post it:
We may never know how lionfish came to inhabit the Atlantic Ocean, and their impact, if any, on their new ecosystem may not be clear for many years; however as keepers of exotic species, aquarium hobbyists need to be conscientious about all of the environmental and moral issues that our activities touch on: the chemicals we use, the wild harvest of marine life, invasive species, the ethics of keeping animals in captivity, just to name a few. For although we are a part of the global ecosystem and our actions may be no less natural than those of any other organisms, we bear the burden of having at least a partial understanding of our impacts on it. I believe that the positive effects of aquarium keeping, in terms of its educational value and the appreciation it fosters for aquatic life, far outweigh any negative impacts it may have on the environment, however there are some things we should keep in mind. One is that the introduction of non-indigenous species into new locales is widely considered to be second only to habitat destruction as a cause of extinction. Another is that there are people out there who would love to see our hobby shut down and if we refuse to ponder and discuss these issues, we will be ill prepared to defend ourselves. We owe it to ourselves as well as to the planet to be responsible aquarists.

If anyone would like to read the whole article, I would be glad to email it to you. Ry84@MSN.com

 
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surfinusa

Guest
i wonder how much they cost they are really cool looking
 

lion_crazz

Active Member
Originally Posted by surfinusa
i wonder how much they cost they are really cool looking
I am sorry if I confused anyone, but that is a baby volitan lionfish!
:happyfish
 

pacino

Member
very interesting info. so sad what contiunes to happen to our environment. also so sad to see somany get turned on to this wonderful hobby, only to get to busy to care for or just flat out get over it. i mean who knows one day one of us could be the sole owner of the last emperor angelfish. we definitly have a great responsiblity in this hobby.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Tropical fish always travel up the gulf stream around this time until about late October. They hang out for a while then leave. I have seen all kinds of trops right off the coast of jersey when we dive the wreaks. Second pic is my fiancé to help dispel any possible theories. For some reason, a lot of people can not except the fact that trops follow the gulf stream and swim right off Belmar, atlantic city, sandy hook. I have seen a lot of different tropical fish that are not indigenous to the colder waters of the north Atlantic waters.

 

lion_crazz

Active Member
This article was not about just a few fish swimming up the coast. Lionfish are from the waters of Indonesia and the Pacific ocean, and now, are living, thriving, and reproducing in the Atlantic Ocean. These fish were never found in the Atlantic, and now, they are everywhere.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by lion_crazz
This article was not about just a few fish swimming up the coast. Lionfish are from the waters of Indonesia and the Pacific ocean, and now, are living, thriving, and reproducing in the Atlantic Ocean. These fish were never found in the Atlantic, and now, they are everywhere.
Ok, so fish can’t take a wrong turn? Global warming, acclimate them selves to the colder waters.
 

lion_crazz

Active Member
Wrong turn? This is half way around the world...
Global warming heats the water a few degrees every 10 years or so. This is a jump from warm Indo water to pretty cold atlantic ocean water. I have never tried putting a lionfish in cold water in an aquarium, but I don't think it would work. I cannot speak in definites, since I have never tried myself.
There is a reason why this fish is only found in the Pacific Ocean near Indonesia.
 

v-lioness

Member
I have read this article and that is one beautiful lion .......
I hope you do not mind but here is another new lion I have been reading about....... Here is the Article, you may find this interesting.....
New lionfish is evolving in Red Sea


Picture kindly supplied by Professor Lev Fishelson.
According to a study undertaken by Lev Fishelson of Tel Aviv University which was published today in the journal Environmental Biology of Fishes, the lionfish, Pterois volitans, found in the Red Sea has changed in appearance over the past 40 years and a new form has evolved.
Rather than the normal ray-like supraocular tentacles which appear just above the eyes of the lionfish , the new form has evolved feather-like tentacles in which one or both have a sharply defined black eye spot with a white ring around it.
In adults, these tentacles are much broader at the tips than the ray-like tentacles of most volitans, and look rather like a peacock's feather. They can measure up to 5cm in length and over 1cm in width at the tip.
The normal form of Pterois volitans is a quite different looking fish.
The additional ornamentation of the supraocular tentacles of Pterois volitans has been known about for some time, and Fishelson has been monitoring the structure and its spread through the volitans populations of the Red Sea for the past 25 years.
It is believed to have been first recorded in the Red Sea at the southern tip of Sinai, but fish bearing the same characteristics have steadily progressed up the Gulf of Aqaba.
Over the past decade, both lionfish morphs have been found living together at the northern end of the Gulf.
Incipient evolution

In a study undertaken by Fishelson in Eilat in 1975, which looked at the morphology of 80 Pterois volitans, none of the specimens with a spotted, feather-like tentacle were found, although five specimens did have wider tentacles than normal.
However, a follow-up study on the same reefs in Eilat a few years ago found two of the new form of lionfish among 35 specimens examined, but these fish had the eye-spot on just a single tentacle. The feather-like tentacled form has subsequently been found outside the Red Sea in the Pacific Ocean.
The precise reason why P. volitans in the Red Sea have been undergoing this evolution to produce a new form isn't known.
One possibility is that the eye-spots have been selected to artificially enlarge the head of the fish, which might be important in communicating with members of the same species, or defending itself against other species.
The other hypothesis is that the elliptical tentacles were selected to imitate tiny fish which act as a bait to attract piscivores that the lionfish can then swallow with its capacious mouth.
It might also be due to sexual selection. Many fishes select phenotypic traits, including ornamentation, and there is a possibility that the evolution of these markings might be sexually selected.
Fishelson believes that the new morph is a rare fish, as few ichthyologists he consulted were aware of it, and there are few specimens in museum spirit collections.
Like many widespread Indo Pacific fish species, P. volitans can differ slightly in its meristics and colouration across its natural range. This has led some scientists to suggest that such widespread species may in fact be made up of several closely related but distinct species.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
Originally Posted by lion_crazz
This article was not about just a few fish swimming up the coast. Lionfish are from the waters of Indonesia and the Pacific ocean, and now, are living, thriving, and reproducing in the Atlantic Ocean. These fish were never found in the Atlantic, and now, they are everywhere.

QUOTE=lion_crazz]Wrong turn? This is half way around the world...
Global warming heats the water a few degrees every 10 years or so. This is a jump from warm Indo water to pretty cold atlantic ocean water. I have never tried putting a lionfish in cold water in an aquarium, but I don't think it would work. I cannot speak in definites, since I have never tried myself.
There is a reason why this fish is only found in the Pacific Ocean near Indonesia.
???????????????????? but you just said........
QUOTE=lion_crazz]These fish were never found in the Atlantic, and now, they are everywhere.
Its quite obvious that fish can acclimate them selves, since these fish are now being found in the north Atlantic and down the coast. Some how some way these fish have made it in the Atlantic. I can't see how a lfs fish is kept in a tank for "X" amount of years gets released and survives the cold winter waters (which I can't even do in a dry suite with out a brain freeze)and then "poof" finds a mate. Even if a hobbyist released two lions at the same time, I highly doubt they would stay in close proximity. let alone a breeding pair that would continue to breed in such a radical change of environment and chemical make up of the water. Lions are not exactly easy fish, susceptible to ammonia and other chemical changes. So to say it was just dumped in the Atlantic with out any kind of acclimation and it survived? Maybe. To find a mate and be able to just start breeding “cold water lions” I’m sorry but I can except that.
 

ophiura

Active Member
So the odds are greater that somehow two made it on their own all the way from the Indo Pacific and established a breeding population here? I find that hard to believe....so we will have to agree to disagree. Fact is that hobbyists are responsible for the introduction of foreign species...from Betta in areas of Florida, to African Cichlids in lakes in the SouthWest. Let's not mention Caulerpa.
ANyway, there is no point in arguing.
THe point is that the final paragraph needs to be taken to heart. I do hope people don't just look at the pretty picture. It is TRUE that many scientists do NOT see any value in this hobby.
 

lion_crazz

Active Member
Yes, and this is why it is such a strange occurence. It is very startingly that these fish CAN survive the cold water, the winter, find a mate, reproduce, and then have their young thrive as well. This is the first it has happened. FishBase has listed 2 sightings of lionfish in the Atlantic (in 1930), and these are incorrect sightings, according to sources.
There is no way that this fish could naturally arrive in the Atlantic Ocean. It HAD to get there via a careless hobbyiest.
Nonetheless, hobbyiests need to begin to realize that they need to stop dumping fish in the ocean. The mentality that "I will just dump in the ocean when it gets too big" is very harmful to the ecosystem of the ocean.
 

sharkbait9

Active Member
I don’t think nor feel there is an argument. I find it rather a refreshing debate over the population of lions in the Atlantic, that’s all, no argument. I was stating how the trops swim north up the gulf stream every year. Maybe, just maybe the first lion was introduced in the Florida waters followed the gulf up north. My last post I was simply saying I can not believe or buy into, that an irresponsible hobbyist illegally released it north of south of the boarder were the waters do tend to get a lot colder and the “first” lion was able to adapt to such a swing in temperatures with out ever dealing with it before find a mate and so on and so fourth.
 

lion_crazz

Active Member
Yeah, I was not trying to argue with you either shark bait. I don't feel we were arguing. There was no name-calling, bickering, etc. A little discussion is always nice because both sides of the issue can be heard. I may say things you never thought of, and you may say things that I did not think of.
I am an open-minded guy, so I am always willing to listen to the oppposing side of the story, as long as it is presented reasonably, as you did. I may feel strongly about something, but that doesn't mean my opinion about something cannot change.
 

promisetbg

Active Member
My previous boss told me about this a few years back,he has seen them while diving. Feral species is never a good thing..it has an impact on the local and natural fish. We have many species in Florida not indigenous to the area..some were introduced on purpose but have caused serious consequences, like Nile Perch.
 

iluvswfish

Member
The fact that the non-native species gaining a foothold are all popular aquarium species that get large leaves no doubt about where they came from
- Lionfish, Panther Grouper, Moorish Idol, Sailfin Tang, Sohal, Emporer Angel, Yellow and Purple Tangs, etc.
more on the subject:
http://www.reef.org/data/meps_exotic.pdf#search='non%20native%20marine%20fish%20in%20atlantic'
http://www.magazine.noaa.gov/stories/mag135.htm
http://www.neaq.org/special/lionfish/
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-fna040704.php
 

vezina345

Member
I've read a couple articles in diferent magazines about populations of lionfish off of the Carolinas. If they are there then it would not be hard for them to move north.
The big question would be how did they get into the ecosystem in the first place. One article that was in a fishing mag hinted that they were released on purpose to control local populations of "Nuisance" fish.
 
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