another newbie set up open to comment

[jabez805]

Greetings, joined and been lurking for a bit, now that I am getting on to the lingo, I feel brave enough to post.
My set up:
55 tall, underground filter, aquatech power filter, Odysea venturi protein skimmer, 12 lbs lr(have 45 more lbs coming tomorrow). (note, lr was added after the spec. grav. was at 1.24)
After 4 weeks of perfect levels, I bought a percula clown and a mushroom coral (bonus, came with a free baby shroom they didn't charge me for.
I started my tank freshwater with mollies, because I was told that was an easy way to cycle the tank as they adapt to marine conditions. So I added instant ocean until it was at the correct level. (over time of course) The mollies have adapted well and one looks large with eggs possibly. I added 4 sea snails yesterday. My lfs is 25 miles away and none of his advise has been comparable to what I have read here, and their tanks leave a lot to be desired. He also never does water changes.
I have a question about curing the live rock. When I got the first batch, (from this site) it said to just put it in the tank, no need to cure. It looked good for a week, but now it's turning brown, (diatoms?) and my nitrite and nitrate levels are high.
My SG is 1.24, Ph is 8.2 ammonia 0, nitrites are .40, nitrates .20. Nemo seems to be doing fine, he is eating well and doing his fishy thing, the large mushroom wasn't opening up like he used to. I did a 20% water change this morning. (I have a new plastic trash can that I heat and airrate for my salt mixing.) Tested my levels on the new water before adding, it was SG 1.24, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, ammonia 0. Restested my tank and there seems to be no change in the bad levels. But the shroom looks happier. :scared: What am I doing wrong, what am I doing right? So any help, guiding me to the right direction would be appreciated!
This site has been a wealth of information thanks!

 

[stingrayjs]

Ok where do I begin...
When you say under gravel filter what are you using? Sand, Crushed coral, or the genero-colored stuff?
When did you put your LR into you tank in teh cycle? After it was done or while it was cycling?
4 weeks is way to short to be adding corals or any kind. You will need to have a tank running for a good 6 months if you are goin ot have any sucess. You will also neeed a good test kit!!! I can't streess that enough.
You where able to convert your mollies from freshwater to altwater just over 4 weeks? I can't imagin how thats posible! Plus who told you that, if its your LFS I would burn the building down! From what I have read bout it I would never ever go there again if I was you and don't listen to a thing they say!
You live rock is proboly ding, you need to test you water on a regular basis. Sounds like you have some major issues.
What type of lights are you using? If you going to have any mushrooms, coral, ect, you will need very high quality lights!!
Before I contiune more, you need to do ALOT more research. Im srry to be the bearer of bad news, expecialy being your first post and all.

 

[sharkbait9]

Don’t be surprised if people nuke you for doing that to mollies or any other type of animal/creature.
you learn real quick most "pet stores" don't know their butt from a hole in the ground. Best bet find out what you want, corals or fish. Choose what types you want and check compatibility and levels of care. Under gravel filters? I didn’t think they still made them. My opinion get rid of the UGF they are horrible again that’s just my opinion. Just pull the power heads off the water column take them out and use the P/H for water circulation. Read the board and get more info. This board and ask questions most of the members have a lot of experience with fowler (Fish Only With Live Rock) tanks or reef tanks and some have both. I do think how ever I’m not alone on the UGF they just mess the chemistry up on saltwater, honestly I never liked them when I was running fresh water either. Time to go back to work, will post more as will others once the 5 O’clock hour is done.

 

[jabez805]

yes, I see already that the lfs should be put out of his misery and ours! Won't be going back there anymore.
OK, lighting, odyssea 260w 48" light set up, has 3 switches, for flourescent, actinic and the moon led's. Bought this after readingthat my mushroom would need better light.
Substrate is the bag gravel, which I am reading here is not the thing,
Forgot to mention, temp is steady 78-80 degrees.
Tank had cycled and was doing well, so adding lr sent it into another cycle?
And for adapting mollies, sorry don't shoot me, that info came from an old schooler who said that was how they did it, but the mollies are doing very well. (Hadn't discovered this site yet.)

So, as I was reading this morning, I need to small area by area take out gravel, and add live sand?
I do have a test kit that tests Ph, ammon., nitrite, nitrate.
The tank has been running for a little over two months now, but no problem til this week.
I gotta ask, how do these places (lfs) stay in business and keep fish if they don't know or don't care what happens after the sale? Looks like this site is going to be my only hope, there are no lfs within 100 miles of my home asnymore!
Thanks for the comments and the help

 

[rusting]

Are you using RO/DI water?

 

[jabez805]

No, unfortunately I used filtered tap water added chlorine neutralizer, salt to 1.024 and let it aerrate for 24 hours , but from now on will be buying it at Wal-Mart...

 

[jakebtc]

be carefull w/ that I quite buying water at wal mart when I tested it
They hardly ever change the filters at our local store

 

[sharkbait9]

Well fist off, you answered your own question. LFS stay in business cause the “unsuspecting” customer YOU take into account that the LFS MUST know how to properly care for animals, right? Well not always. Certain animals, critter and creatures need specific care, the LFS only get a general or bridge version of care or at best a sheet of paper, that has not been updated on care facts since it was printed. Take for instance a certain big chain PET Company, if you want a job and say yeah I have had fish, dogs, cats, yada yada yada. You become a specialist, Huh, wait what. That’s right and that’s from the horses mouth. As to the lights PC (Power Compact fluorescent) are a good light system. You do how ever have limit species you can keep and have thrive in/under. Always research a type/species you wish to keep and make sure your tank Is at least sufficient if not top choice for that type/species
I’m from the old school days of the saltwater hobby when we used damsels to cycle a tank and I quote ( I remember this like it was yesterday from a LFS) Mix water with salt let sit for twenty minutes wash out crushed coral till water runs clear cover the bottom of the tank add water turn on heater, filter let the temp reach 78 degrees float fish (at least two fish) after fifteen minutes add cup of tank water float another fifteen minutes dump fish sit back and enjoy. Let tank cycle for 2 weeks come back and get more fish. TADAAA I have a saltwater tank guys………..AHH DUHHHHHHHHH. Like everything in this world we live we learn from are mistakes. Its ok to make mistakes but with this forum senseless mistakes are costly and painful to your co-inhabitants and your wallet and you. Tap water really is garbage even the aquarium pharmaceuticals tap water filter is better then no filtered water/tap water. I used the tap water filter before a LFS by me opened and my levels I got out of the filter were pretty low if not measurable. Still looking into get a R/O filter for my house. Live sand is the way to go, rocks or crushed coral will just keep you tripping on levels. If you choose to by from wal-mart always check the water parameters first before mixing salt and assuming the water is pure. assumption is the mother of all F**K-UPS. You also should look into get a cleaner crew, very very very important IMO and pretty much everyone else too. This hobby is a slow and steady pace hobby not a rush and get it done, read learn ask questions. The live rock will cycle a tank I live literally 3 minutes away from my LFS and I bought a nice piece of LR and by the time I got home dunked it a couple of times (done my test before I left to get the LR all levels perfect) the next afternoon I had a little haze in the water and my ammonia was just making a mark on my test, so always watch your levels when adding LR. Your on the right track just keep asking question and be very specific.

 

[mikeyjer]

geezes sharkbait!!!....That's a LONG post....My head was spinning after reading it....lol
I'll make my post simple. Your lighting is just fine for mushroom!!! They do NOT need intense lighting, but yes your limited to what type of corals you can have. I read that you test for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and PH. I don't see that you have any test kits for Alkaline and Calcium, plus some others. But those two are needed if you want your live rock to do well. You will need to get Calcium supplement like Reef Complete. Unless you do your weekly water changes, then it's really not needed. Unless your salt mix don't do the job....It might take a little bit for your mushroom to adjust to it's new environment, did you tempeature acclimate it at all? They're pretty hardy anyway, it shouldn't take long for it to recover. The UGF and sand thing was already mentioned so I'm not gonna get into that. Good Luck! :happyfish

 

[sharkbait9]

geezes sharkbait!!!....That's a LONG post....My head was spinning after reading it....lol
I'll make my post simple. Your lighting is just fine for mushroom!!! They do NOT need intense lighting, but yes your limited to what type of corals you can have. I read that you test for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and PH. I don't see that you have any test kits for Alkaline and Calcium, plus some others. But those two are needed if you want your live rock to do well. You will need to get Calcium supplement like Reef Complete. Unless you do your weekly water changes, then it's really not needed. Unless your salt mix don't do the job....It might take a little bit for your mushroom to adjust to it's new environment, did you tempeature acclimate it at all? They're pretty hardy anyway, it shouldn't take long for it to recover. The UGF and sand thing was already mentioned so I'm not gonna get into that. Good Luck! :happyfish[/QUOT

:hilarious i can type really long messages i know it, bad habits die hard.

 

[jabez805]

Thanks a bunch for the posts! I'll take long winded any day as long as it's helpful and doesn't beat me up any more than I am doing to myself at this point!
Mushie was doing better after water change yesterday, but the nitrite and nitrate levels are holding, ammonia has dropped though. What do you think of the de-nitrifying rocks sold at lfs, is it worth a try or should I just keep doing water changes? Going to Wal-Mart now to see how well they maintain their water systems, otherwise I may do as someone else on here did and get it from Culligan.
Will go buy a test for calcium, I do have the alkalinity test and it's in acceptable range.
Now to complicate matters it looks as if I will be moving at the end of this month

/

It seems I am not much better at wifing than I am at being a fish mum, so how can I do this without any further harm to mushie and Nemo?
Oh, and yes I did temp. acclimate.
Glad to know the lighting is acceptable. Also my 45 lbs of live rock just arrived, do I put it in the tank or hold off til the move? It's traveled its two day trip to home, what will this do to it?
Thanks again, MUCH appreciation

 

[sharkbait9]

No they stink for the most part, IMO. If your trates are high they are not going to make a diff. Keep up with your water change and once your levels bottom out then if you want add the de-trate rocks to kind of give a helping hand, but always test your waters. I like to test before my water change and then 24 hrs after water change and see where I’m at from that point. Once you get your cycle done and your levels are bottomed out it becomes easy. Honestly I would re-cycle the rocks in a bucket of saltwater with a power head. Even if the LR came submerged in saltwater your still going to have die off and that will spike your levels back up. Maybe some one has a “better way” to deal with LR mailed to your house, I just know what I have done with LR from a mail order. No sense messing levels up with a new cycle of LR. Once your tank is set up and going where ever your going to move to take a new clean garbage can mix up saltwater put a power head in for circulation add heater to bring temp up add live rock after twenty four hours to help cycle that water at the new location. Empty out tank water into a bucket put nemo and shrooms in that bucket bring to new location drip new water into bucket with nemo and srooms after an hour or so start to fill tank up with new water. Or you can get clean unused buckets with lids drain old water into buckets leaving just enough water to keep sand wet and transport water and tank and co-inhabitants in separate containment to new location.

 

[jabez805]

Thanks, that helps, I do have the plastic trash can and bought an extra heater and aerrator, so sounds like a plan. Bless you!

 

[turningtim]

I haven't seen any addressing of the UGF, might have missed though. When you move get rid of the UGF and switch the substrate to LS. You don't have to buy all LS. 1 bag and then the rest dead sand will be seeded by the LS and LR. Tyhe clown and shroom are pretty sturdy critters and hopefully will make through all the transitions that they will go through.
Take the LR and place ina rubbermaid tub with heat and powerhead. test and wait until its cycled. The die off will be minimal. But once its cured your good to add to the tank.
Seems like sharkbait's got on the right track......
Do a search on moving tanks and changing substrate. There's tons of info!
HTH
JMO
Tim

 

[jabez805]

yes, thanks again, with the move will pitch UGF and substrate, have ls on the way, buy calcium test. And No more tap water!

 

[sharkbait9]

like turning tim said. use dead/dry sand as a bottom cover and one 20lb bag of "live sand" to seed the dead sand. DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT allow the water that comes in the bag of live sand to get into your water, man I can not stress this enough. My buddy just got done redoing his tank went and got another bag of LS (think it would be better for more LS) well that went over like a fart in church, spiked the levels and made his water cloudy as all heck. I don’t know why, all I know is that it reeked havoc on his levels after the numb nut got his cycle done and over with

. I follow the simple rule of, if it did not come from my tank it don’t go into my tank with out a drip, QT time, or a draining. Take the bag of LS drain thru a fish net and place the sand on the bottom of the tank. Maybe I’m a little assiduous with my tanks but I just don’t want the headache of bad water and the problems associated with it.

 

[jabez805]

Thanks for all your advice sharkbait (& co.), from my limited experience here thus far, I would have to completely agree with your methods. Better overly safe than sorry. What a nightmare this has become! My poor critters. So far they are weathering it well, the little troopers.
So, off to study more on the move process, have two weeks to prep, and all components in place.