another pump question

[sleasia]

What pump should I get for the new 150 reef? Is a blueline 30 hpx or 40 hpc ok? This tank will be on a stand 3ft high (standard counter height) the tank is 6 ft x 24x 20"h...there is an internal overflow with 2" drain and 1"return leading to 3/4" lock line returns in all 4 corners of the tank. thanks everyone. I will also have a closed loop but may put that on a separate pump... :notsure:

 

[acrylic51]

What are the specs on both pumps as far as head and such, and alot depends on type of system your setting up.....If your going to run a CL your not going to want to use the same pump to power your CL or it isn't a CL......

 

[sleasia]

Acrylic 51...sorry you are going to be so sick of me....the blueline 30 x hp has 13 ft head 1110 gph at 0 ft 1" in and out 90 watts
the 40x hd has 1270 gph at 0 ft 13 ft head and 130 watts ?1" in and outs
I am going to have a separate pump run the closed loop, so I will get two pumps...I'm trying to avoid making the mistake I made on the last tank by asking first....because my other tank's pump is probably unnecessarily too strong....? Maybe these are too? :notsure:

 

[acrylic51]

No problem......What are you planning on keeping in the tank? What turnover rate are you looking to achieve?

 

[sleasia]

Well, I guess that's my question...I don't know what I should have...I am planning to do reef with this tank anenomes, corals, clams etc. and some fish.

 

[acrylic51]

Alot is dependent on the size of the overflow and hole size and sump size.......With a 2" hole you could actually handle good flow depending on overflow size, but sumps are usually the limiting factor........1500gph going through a sump is alot and you usually have issues with microbubbles as well......
What are the dimensions of the overflow??? Sump size? You have to figure what your turnover target is for the system and then figure what your sump can easily handle, and then we look at pumps to meet those goals.....To make up the difference in your turnover goal will make it up with the CL.....

 

[sleasia]

the sump is probably 50 gallons the overflow is probably 5"x8"x20"

 

[acrylic51]

Using a calc by the dimensions given on the overflow and hole size you would be in the 1200-1300gph the overflow will handle......The overflow hole size might handle more, but the overflow itself probably won't.......When figuring overflow capacity you have to take into account the size of the overflow as well......Is the overflow corner mounted? Center mounted? If it's corner mounted you have roughly 13 linear inches of skimming area vs if its center mounted you would have roughly 18 linear inches of skimming area......Again this does play a factor into what the overflow will handle.....

 

[acrylic51]

Are you planning on building a Dursostand pipe for the overflow? You might have a hard time squeezing 1 1/2" in there, but really from what I've seen and played with you'd be ok using 1 1/4" instead of 1 1/2", the gain would be very marginal in flow.

 

[sleasia]

so maybe I should get something with a slightly higher gph rating and then regulate it with ball valves? maybe 1500gph? the overflow is corner mounted.

 

[acrylic51]

1500gph would probably be pushing it, because you only have 13 linear inches of skimming area......If the pump would be to much you could regulate it

 

[sleasia]

Ok so I should look for 1300 gph pump size. I will likely put in a durso type thing, because I was thinking that if in the long run, the acrylic overflow box begins to leak because of the silicone seal between acrylic and glass becoming weak...it will be a big pain to fix...but with the durso in there as well, there would not be a problem, or at least not a big problem should this occur eventually. Now, should I get two of the same size pumps? will the closed loop require the same gph? the closed loop will be 1" to 3/4" pvc and probably will have 3 or 4 outlets (spouts). I am assuming the closed loop should wind around the base of the tank to provide circulation from the base up since the tank will probably get enough circulation above from the 4 lock line returns

 

[acrylic51]

You have to determine the overall turnover rate you'd like to achieve in the tank...The overflow is dictating what you can handle that area, so if you want a turnover of 20X your tank volume, you would need to make the difference up with the CL....I'm not saying the overflow couldn't handle a bit more, but highly doubt it will.....Usually overflow sizing is 6x6 and usually they put a 1" bulkhead inside......for whatever reason yours is 5x8 with a 2" hole.......the hole will handle it for sure, but don't think the overflow itself will handle it......
Your CL doesn't have to be along the bottom of the tank....It could be along the top rim, and I'm sure there are tons of pics here of people that have done the same.....Actually I had the same idea for my system and have constructed a pvc manifold for the bottom of the tank......
The manifold is constructed of 1" PVC with "T's" as my outlets......I have the manifold built so that once my LR is in place it will actually be underneath the LR and will be able to put locline or other fittings to direct flow where I please......I'm trying to figure what I can push through the manifold due to line size.....Pumps aren't an issue with me.....I'm using the HammerHead or return and my chiller which is located remotely, but at this point not really sure if I'll have enough to get the flow I want out of the pump.......
My other option was to use the same manifold, but instead of using it off my return pump was to tie into my CL system, which has dual 2" drains and feed the bottom manifold with a separate pump and push it as hard as I can.....Hopefully tomorrow I'll get the flow meter installed and a pumped hooked to it and measure what the flow is........

 

[sleasia]

what you are doing with the cl is what I had planned to do...wrap it around the bottom concealed by sand and lr, with some outlets Probably locklines so they can be moved and manipulated. Ok this is what I wasn't sure of, how much flow should you target for a reef tank, I guess 20x is what you are saying, divided by both the filter pump and the cl. Ok...the overflow is the size it is only because it was homemade, and I had no clue that it should be any particular size. Thanks for all the info...

 

[acrylic51]

20X was just a number I threw out there in the air.....Alot depends on what you plan to keep......If manly SPS you want much more turnover for the system........What are you intial plans to keep a mixed reef?
If you go to ReefCentral and use their overflow calc you'll see the numbers you plug in will relate to overflow sizing and bulkhead hole size which you would need to obtain to reach that flow goal........But yes your actually correct once you determine what your going to run through the overflow, and the remainder or balance to meet your target turnover would come through your CL.