Arghhhh! I give up!

[tat2guy]

Ok so my DT fish all got ich, I tried to treat them all with garlic and Zoe, but it just seemed to get worse. I tore down my DT, put all my LR in a garbage pail (with a powerhead, and and heater) and all my corals in my frag tank, and all my fish in a 100g QT. I dropped the salinity to 1.013, raised the temp to 82, continued with the Zoe and garlic, and started copper treatment. I quarantined for 6 weeks and everything looked very good, I did lose 3 fish though, my regal, my powder brown and my yellow tang which I treated even though there was no sign of Ich. I was ready to give up on the hobby and my friend talked me down off the ledge. After filtering all the copper out of the QT water and slowly bringing the salinity back up I decided to put my DT back together with my now healthy fish (I figured there couldn't be any Ich left in the water now). Well the DT is back up and looks great, but just tonight I looked in my DT and it looks like the Ich is back after only 5 days. I haven't introduced anything new to the DT, what gives? I give up man, seriously, I am so discouraged. I just want to smash everything, I'm so angry and frustrated, I just don't know what to do anymore. I can't expres enough how frustrated I am.

 

[deejeff442]

same boat here man,
hypo the tank 5 weeks put it back together and ich came back worse.
they are in copper now ,lost my tusk,chevron so far.
i am coppering my dt.
its a fowlr so the sand will get the copper as well.
that fricken ich is just a downer in this hobbie.
it happens and just need to figure its worth it (maybe)when the tanks look good.
i am still worried about my goldflake angel .
i keep thinking from now on cheap damsels.

 

[jayson417]

I know its depressing to deal with when you put so much time and effort but don't give up. I feel that some things work different for everyone. Copper may not work for you but would for someone else. Have you tried every thing out there?
Perhaps its time to hypo it for 8 weeks? Give it everything you got before you give up so you can say you tried everything.

 

[tat2guy]

Originally Posted by deejeff442
http:///forum/post/3051361
same boat here man,
hypo the tank 5 weeks put it back together and ich came back worse.
they are in copper now ,lost my tusk,chevron so far.
i am coppering my dt.
its a fowlr so the sand will get the copper as well.
that fricken ich is just a downer in this hobbie.
it happens and just need to figure its worth it (maybe)when the tanks look good.
i am still worried about my goldflake angel .
i keep thinking from now on cheap damsels.
Dude, sorry to hear about your experience. It is incredibly frustrating, I love the hobby a lot, but this ich thing is killing me, my wallet, and my time. I hardly feel its even worth it anymore. I might get rid of my last tang, it seems everytime I get a tang is when the problem with Ich happens again. I've never had a problem with Ich with any of my other fish until I started introducing tangs into the DT.

 

[crypt keeper]

Tangs are the biggest carrier of ich. They need to be QT and put through hypo and or use of copper always.

 

[deejeff442]

yea i have 3 tangs in the tank
well i came home a little while ago and looks like all my tangs are ich free just the goldflake angel and bluethroat have some but they picked it up a couple days after the tangs.
all are eating and look good so its time for the copper to seek and destroy.

 

[u mike]

don't give up man, I am going right along with you, lost all but 3 fish out of 7 havent had major problem with ick in over 3 years. just remember the longer you wait & go slow the better off things will be .just wright down the things that may have gone wrong or you have changed over time . I put everything in computer so I can follow up on things. good luck ,

 

[aquaknight]

Where did you read a salinity of 1.013 was effective for Ich? Hopefully it wasn't here. Hyposalinity as a treatment is only effective at 1.009 as stated in the stickied how-to. 1.010 and above, the pressure is not great enough to effective kill Ich. Yes, that slight difference matters, and during treatment, it should only be checked with a refractometer, not a swing arm hydrometer. You need to measure the tank at least once a day, my preference is twice, morning and afternoon. Water will evaporate and raise the salinity, you need to make constant adjustments.
I also am not sure where you read performing both hypo and copper together was okay (I really, really hope it wasn't here). Copper is extremely lethal to fish at hypo levels. The fact that your fish are still alive is an indicator to me, that the copper levels weren't high enough. If they were, as stated the fish probably wouldn't have made it.

 

[deejeff442]

i have talked to some long time reefers that hypo and copper .
personally i dont see the point.
imo hypo needs 8 weeks and i am still not positive it works.
copper kept at the correct level works everytime.
now with cupramine which is an awesome product it can easilly be removed so inverts and corals will be fine if some one doses thier dt after.
i can just say from doing both over the years copper works every time and hypo is a risk.
although i did hypo my puffer when i got him so i dont know if he had ich or not but since it doesnt hurt the fish its a good practice for new arrivals in a qt.

 

[salami trigger]

Don't give up.
I have been doing this for 25 years....stopped with salt for 3 years and just started again...read my other thread....I just lost all fish in my new NANO.
I was thinking this is why I stopped with salt...I dont care how much money we have...It is a very expensive hobby and sometimes you just cant justify the cost. At least stay with say Damsels and keep a tank going.
Copper must go to a prpper theraputic level to work...too low no affect...too high..lethal to fish.
My question guys is after a tanks inhabbitants are gone...how long can ICH hang around for without any fish hosts.

 

[deejeff442]

6 weeks,
well all my fish look good today
problem is copper only takes 3 weeks and now i have to leave the rock out for 6 weeks.but once the copper is out i will be able to see if there is any ich inthe tank for 3 weeks.

 

[nigerbang]

In most cases if the fish are healthy you wont have any outbreaks of ick.. they most of the time come and go when a fish is stressed out.. with 3 tangs in a 110 they might have been having some territory issues or improper diet leading the tangs to develop ick. The other fish might have been weak from god knows what and that why it attached to them.. 1.013 isnt enough for hypo... more like 1.009 thats a huge difference...
Sorry for your losses..

 

[tat2guy]

Hey everyone, sorry I haven't been around, I've been so busy, but thank you all for your replies.
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3051809
Where did you read a salinity of 1.013 was effective for Ich? Hopefully it wasn't here. Hyposalinity as a treatment is only effective at 1.009 as stated in the stickied how-to. 1.010 and above, the pressure is not great enough to effective kill Ich. Yes, that slight difference matters, and during treatment, it should only be checked with a refractometer, not a swing arm hydrometer. You need to measure the tank at least once a day, my preference is twice, morning and afternoon. Water will evaporate and raise the salinity, you need to make constant adjustments.
I also am not sure where you read performing both hypo and copper together was okay (I really, really hope it wasn't here). Copper is extremely lethal to fish at hypo levels. The fact that your fish are still alive is an indicator to me, that the copper levels weren't high enough. If they were, as stated the fish probably wouldn't have made it.
I didn't realize any of this, I didn't realize that the hypo salinity had to be that low, I also didn't realize that you couldn't do both at the same time. I guess I was given bad information from a friend that I have that works at a LFS. She has been very helpful, and I know she means well but I don't think I will be taking any of her advice from now on, it seems every time she gives me any advice it usually causes me problems. I seem to do a lot better when I look to people like you guys for advice and information. I am a member on a couple of SW Msg boards and I have to say, I really love this one, everyone has always been very polite and so helpful. I find that people get slammed hard a lot on the other msg boards for being inexperienced, and its really disheartening, and discouraging.
I don't think I am going to give up just yet, but I am going to take things a little slower, and consult the msg boards even more. Like I said I may also get rid of the last tang that I do have, seems like all the tangs are always the cause of my problems.
Thanks again everyone!

 

[sarahg]

Just to share, we just went through a huge Ick infestation whose origins are completely unknown. We lost 4 fish and in desperation I read through some of the coral and reef post even though I have FOWLR. There was a suggestion to try a fresh water dip on the fish. We did this to every fish in the QT tank and used a product called Kordon Ich Attack in the regular tank. We also invested in a Cleaner Wrass and several skunk cleaner shrimp who were more than happy to help. i would say 99% of the Ich is gone but we are still treating the main tank because to the parasite life cycle. Don't give up!

 

[mantisman51]

I didn't get ****** in my DT for almost a year. Then, not coincidentally, I put a dwarf lionfish and two clowns in the DT without QT. I have lost 2 fish this time + the new fish, as I was at least smart enough to worry and watch and caught it immediately. I used hypo for 4 weeks-3 weeks after all traces of ****** were gone. I kept sg at 1.008 the whole time-measuring with a well calibrated refractometer. The next morning, after raising sg to 1.010, ****** was back. It has only appeared on my blue hippo. But, I have given him a FW dip each day since and as soon as sg is back to 1.023, in will go the coppersafe. The point is, I knew better, but did anyway and my fish paid for it. However, since I was prepared, there were only 2 casualties and the new dwarf lion and clowns. Using proper qt techniques will keep you from feeling the financial and emotional burn of ******. My wife has said EVERYDAY since, "You knew better and I warned you and you killed my two butterflies". That is almost as bad as losing the fish.

 

[deejeff442]

thats funny ,a couple years ago we got a bit drunk and i took out my 4 wheeler and flipped it felt like i broke myarm but the worst was my yelling at me like a 4 yr old in front of the neighbors.
i have been posting alot here lately how i feel hypo dont work.
there of course some who say it does but there are alot of posts like yours saying as soon at the salt comes up the ich comes back.
i just had the same thing and almost lost my achilles and goldflake angel.
now they are in copper and all is good.
copper especially now that there is cupramine has been proven time and time again.
i have never heard of ich coming back after copper just hypo.
some say hypo works but takes 8 weeks.
that i might believe but not 3 weeks after the ich is not seen.

 

[triton]

Originally Posted by deejeff442
http:///forum/post/3053567
thats funny ,a couple years ago we got a bit drunk and i took out my 4 wheeler and flipped it felt like i broke myarm but the worst was my yelling at me like a 4 yr old in front of the neighbors.
i have been posting alot here lately how i feel hypo dont work.
there of course some who say it does but there are alot of posts like yours saying as soon at the salt comes up the ich comes back.
i just had the same thing and almost lost my achilles and goldflake angel.
now they are in copper and all is good.
copper especially now that there is cupramine has been proven time and time again.
i have never heard of ich coming back after copper just hypo.
some say hypo works but takes 8 weeks.
that i might believe but not 3 weeks after the ich is not seen.
I agree, hypo doesn't work all the time. I would estimate that it's efficiency is at about 50% right now in completely eradicating a system of ich.
The reason; ich mutates. There is not 1 strain of ich, there are several. They are all unique, and some are immune to hyposalinity treatment.
10 years ago, hyposalinity was much more effective.