Arizona's (other) New Law

[mantisman51]

So, as of yesterday, we now have the right to carry concealed weapons w/o a permit.

We were one of the few states that allowed a gun to be concealed in a vehicle, so this just gave us the same rights as our cars.

Believe it or not the Sheriffs Association areed with the law. The only statewide dissenting opinion is the extremely left wing Democrat Attorney General. So he's down in the low teens for approval and running for govenor and is openly saying he'll seek to repeal the law if elected. Seems like libs have no clue sometimes. This law has almost 70% approval as well as 1070. All I can say is while the rest of the country seems to be marching like lemmings off the socialist cliff, we in Arizona are having a Constitutional revival.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3293073
So, as of yesterday, we now have the right to carry concealed weapons w/o a permit.

We were one of the few states that allowed a gun to be concealed in a vehicle, so this just gave us the same rights as our cars.

Believe it or not the Sheriffs Association areed with the law. The only statewide dissenting opinion is the extremely left wing Democrat Attorney General. So he's down in the low teens for approval and running for govenor and is openly saying he'll seek to repeal the law if elected. Seems like libs have no clue sometimes. This law has almost 70% approval as well as 1070. All I can say is while the rest of the country seems to be marching like lemmings off the socialist cliff, we in Arizona are having a Constitutional revival.
I REALLY don't like the idea of CC without a permit but on the other hand if I were AG and running for gov I'd like to think I would have sense enough not to go against 70% of the population.

 

[mantisman51]

If you think about it, you are concerned with criminals carrying concealed right? They are alreay doing it. It gives us honest citizens equal rights with the criminals now. Personally I love to see folks in the grocery store or gas station with a gun on their hip. I know criminals aren't going to strike while the they are there. Now the criminals don't know who's packing and are going to be alot less likely to pull their guns. George Washington said "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference -- they deserve a place of honor with all that is good." I believe he knew a little something about it.

 

[reefraff]

There are too many idiots in the world to let just anyone walk into any situation armed in my opinion.

 

[bionicarm]

I sure wouldn't want to get into any road rage incident with anyone out there. Accidentally cut someone off on the road and, BAM!
Is there an age limit with this law? Put a gun in some '21 year old testostrone induced kid' hands, and he now thinks he's Billy The Kid.
Not to mention, Arizona is right in the middle of this illegal Mexican debate. You might be seeing another Gunfight at the OK Corral pretty soon. Some pro-1070 gets into an argument with an anti-1070, and who knows what will happen. If I were an Arizona cop, I'd be pretty nervous about who I confront in any situation.
Does this mean the illegals can also carry? That'll be fun. The Appeals Court overrules this injunction on SB1070, and the cops start asking for proper ID when they pull over a suspected illegal. The illegal pulls out a gun and shoots the cop for asking. He runs back across the border, never to be seen again.
All I can say is good luck, and keep your head down.

 

[reefraff]

Can illegals carry? Like they care about the law

Thats the argument in favor of this law, criminals are going to carry no matter what so this levels the playing field. I would prefer a license to carry but it should be easy to get. Pass a written test on firearms use and safety and you get the license. If you make it cheap and easy most law abiding folk will follow the rules rather than just carry. Colorado is interesting. State law is you can carry in your vehicle but certain cities like the People's Republic of Denver don't allow it. Pretty lame. If I get pulled over on my way out of town and I happen to be in the PROD city limits I can get in trouble because of the 45 in my truck.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3293245
Can illegals carry? Like they care about the law

Thats the argument in favor of this law, criminals are going to carry no matter what so this levels the playing field. I would prefer a license to carry but it should be easy to get. Pass a written test on firearms use and safety and you get the license. If you make it cheap and easy most law abiding folk will follow the rules rather than just carry. Colorado is interesting. State law is you can carry in your vehicle but certain cities like the People's Republic of Denver don't allow it. Pretty lame. If I get pulled over on my way out of town and I happen to be in the PROD city limits I can get in trouble because of the 45 in my truck.
That wasn't the point i was trying to make. If this SB1070 ruling gets overturned, the cops will have to be a little more leary when they're questioning a suspected illegal. Before this gun law passed, if an illegal was carrying a gun just walking down the street, that alone would be 'probable cause' for a cop to arrest him and then find out he was an illegal. Now with this new gun law, an illegal can walk right past a cop, and the cop can't do anything, or ask his legal status, because the 'probable cause' violation no longer exists.

 

[kjr_trig]

I'm not a fan of this one...Like Bio said you have to watch out for the road ragers here. I don't give people the "bird" near as much as when I lived in S. Carolina or Washington state.

 

[mantisman51]

We have always been allowed to carry a weapon concealed in our cars and haven't had a road rage violence problem, so that concern is unwarranted. Honestly guys, you are all falling for the liberal lie. "Guns cause violence". Every concern you are stating, and are quite correct, criminals already have the ability to do. They don't care if a law says not to carry a gun-they already are! Please trust your fellow citizens a bit. In EVERY instance that gun laws have been liberalized, crime has gone down dramatically. That's why more states have enacted conceal-carry laws. Would you pull a gun and shoot someone for cutting you off? No. And the idiot that would is already packing-BECAUSE THEY ARE CRIMINALS! Will there be a random incident here and there? Yes. But no more so than befor. Remember we already have the right to have a gun in the car and on our hips without a permit and always have. "The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." Maybe the forefathers weren't clear enough. Infringed means not even a little bit around the edges. Trust your fellow citizens!

 

[stdreb27]

Here is the thing, with this. Say you roll up on some gang bangers, they're armed to the teeth, obviously intending do something illegal. You go in there and find all their weapons. Now you can't arrest em, because they haven't done anything yet. And it is really hard to prove they intended to do something... Texas has a similar law, you can carry in your vehicle without a permit.
Other than that I really have no problem with it...

 

[reefraff]

My worry isn't about road rage, it's people who have no clue when it's legal and proper to use deadly force or the threat thereof. I've carried for 20 years and in all that time there was only 1 time I felt the need to pull my weapon.
Making people get a license is as much for their protection as others. How many people really understand when it's acceptable to use or ever threaten to use deadly force. Do people understand that showing a weapon (which is what I had to do to defuse a situation) and pointing the weapon, even unloaded, at someone is the difference between so what and aggravated assault? Just a good idea to make people educate themselves if they are going to carry.

 

[mantisman51]

True, but if they are felons they can be arrested, if they aren't then they are just armed citizens. And I would rather legally have a weapon to at least have a chance to protect myself from folks like that than not be allowed to-those gangsters will have those guns no matter what, but I won't if it's been outlawed. See? This evens the field for citizens, it doesn't empower criminals more than they already are.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3293267
True, but if they are felons they can be arrested, if they aren't then they are just armed citizens. And I would rather legally have a weapon to at least have a chance to protect myself from folks like that than not be allowed to-those gangsters will have those guns no matter what, but I won't if it's been outlawed. See? This evens the field for citizens, it doesn't empower criminals more than they already are.
(this info is coming from a couple cousins who worked as police) basically what it would turn into was they'd just take em downtown because they don't really need a reason for an afternoon. And just give em a hard time. Hopefully by then they would have cooled off and not be planning on going and shooting someone.

 

[bionicarm]

Personally I look at it as if Arizona needs to pass a law to allow anyone who feels like it to carry a gun, simply because they feel they need the protection, then Arizona has a MAJOR issue with crime. I've lived in Texas all my life, gone through some pretty shady neighborhoods, yet I've never felt threatened to the point to where I thought I'd need to be 'packing' just to feel safe. Sure, I've had a pistol in my car from time to time. But mainly because I was transporting it to the gun range, and forgot to take it out.
Trust me, if a criminal wants to commit a crime, they will care less whether they think you have a gun or not. Like Reef stated, if you aren't properly trained to handle a situation where someone comes up to you and sticks a gun in your face, all it's going to do is get you killed because you freezed at the critical time. A guy walks up and pulls a gun on you, he sees you have a gun strapped to your side, you gonna reach for that gun? Let's say you have it tucked in your back, and it's hidden by a jacket. The guy gets distracted for a moment that would allow you to pull it out. When you draw that gun, do you have the balls to actually go through with it and shoot the guy? Again, make the wrong decision, and you're either dead, or have something that will haunt you for the rest of your life.
As for road rage, in the last month here in San Antonio, we've had three road rage incidents involving guns. Two serious injuries, one fatality. Each case it involved at least one indivual that had a legal license to carry a concealed weapon.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3293295
Personally I look at it as if Arizona needs to pass a law to allow anyone who feels like it to carry a gun, simply because they feel they need the protection, then Arizona has a MAJOR issue with crime. I've lived in Texas all my life, gone through some pretty shady neighborhoods, yet I've never felt threatened to the point to where I thought I'd need to be 'packing' just to feel safe. Sure, I've had a pistol in my car from time to time. But mainly because I was transporting it to the gun range, and forgot to take it out.
Trust me, if a criminal wants to commit a crime, they will care less whether they think you have a gun or not. Like Reef stated, if you aren't properly trained to handle a situation where someone comes up to you and sticks a gun in your face, all it's going to do is get you killed because you freezed at the critical time. A guy walks up and pulls a gun on you, he sees you have a gun strapped to your side, you gonna reach for that gun? Let's say you have it tucked in your back, and it's hidden by a jacket. The guy gets distracted for a moment that would allow you to pull it out. When you draw that gun, do you have the balls to actually go through with it and shoot the guy? Again, make the wrong decision, and you're either dead, or have something that will haunt you for the rest of your life.
As for road rage, in the last month here in San Antonio, we've had three road rage incidents involving guns. Two serious injuries, one fatality. Each case it involved at least one indivual that had a legal license to carry a concealed weapon.
I don't agree for a second that crooks don't worry about armed citizens. There have even been studies conducted among people doing time for robbery and their biggest fear was an armed homeowner. Same deal with concealed carry states. Just knowing a person walking down the street MIGHT have a gun is a deterrent. Maybe not for the more hard core crazies but certainly enough to make a difference.

 

[oceankid]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3293295
Personally I look at it as if Arizona needs to pass a law to allow anyone who feels like it to carry a gun, simply because they feel they need the protection, then Arizona has a MAJOR issue with crime. I've lived in Texas all my life, gone through some pretty shady neighborhoods, yet I've never felt threatened to the point to where I thought I'd need to be 'packing' just to feel safe. Sure, I've had a pistol in my car from time to time. But mainly because I was transporting it to the gun range, and forgot to take it out.
Trust me, if a criminal wants to commit a crime, they will care less whether they think you have a gun or not. Like Reef stated, if you aren't properly trained to handle a situation where someone comes up to you and sticks a gun in your face, all it's going to do is get you killed because you freezed at the critical time. A guy walks up and pulls a gun on you, he sees you have a gun strapped to your side, you gonna reach for that gun? Let's say you have it tucked in your back, and it's hidden by a jacket. The guy gets distracted for a moment that would allow you to pull it out. When you draw that gun, do you have the balls to actually go through with it and shoot the guy? Again, make the wrong decision, and you're either dead, or have something that will haunt you for the rest of your life.
As for road rage, in the last month here in San Antonio, we've had three road rage incidents involving guns. Two serious injuries, one fatality. Each case it involved at least one indivual that had a legal license to carry a concealed weapon.
Last month you had three road rage incidents involving guns. In the future, you'll have 6 or more road rage incidents involving guns. Each case is involve at least one individual that have the right to carry concealed weapons w/o a permit.

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3293297
I don't agree for a second that crooks don't worry about armed citizens. There have even been studies conducted among people doing time for robbery and their biggest fear was an armed homeowner. Same deal with concealed carry states. Just knowing a person walking down the street MIGHT have a gun is a deterrent. Maybe not for the more hard core crazies but certainly enough to make a difference.
Having a gun in your house is completely different than carrying one on your person. If a criminal has the sole intention of robbing you or harming you, they will insure they have the advantage of surprise before the attack. They're not just going to go walking down the street towards you with a gun in their hand, then all of a sudden point it at you demanding your cash or something else. But then in Arizona, a person can just walk down the street with a gun strapped to their side, and a normal citizen won't think anything of it. Until one time that guy that is casually walking past you turns around, comes up behind you, and sticks the gun into your side demanding your wallet, purse, or anything else. If he knows there's a possibility you also might be carrying, he simply frisks you looking for a gun. If he finds one, he may just use it on you for spite.
Letting someone carry a weapon without proper training is an open invitation for trouble. How extensive are the background checks for purchasing a firearm in Arizona?

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3293300
Having a gun in your house is completely different than carrying one on your person. If a criminal has the sole intention of robbing you or harming you, they will insure they have the advantage of surprise before the attack. They're not just going to go walking down the street towards you with a gun in their hand, then all of a sudden point it at you demanding your cash or something else. But then in Arizona, a person can just walk down the street with a gun strapped to their side, and a normal citizen won't think anything of it. Until one time that guy that is casually walking past you turns around, comes up behind you, and sticks the gun into your side demanding your wallet, purse, or anything else. If he knows there's a possibility you also might be carrying, he simply frisks you looking for a gun. If he finds one, he may just use it on you for spite.
Letting someone carry a weapon without proper training is an open invitation for trouble. How extensive are the background checks for purchasing a firearm in Arizona?
Background checks are a federal requirement so AZ goes through the same thing Texans do.
There is plenty of data to back up the CCW's effect on violent crime. There was a study done on California between counties that made it easier to get a CCW permit and those who didn't. Guess which ones had the drop in violent crime?

 

[bionicarm]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3293308
Background checks are a federal requirement so AZ goes through the same thing Texans do.
There is plenty of data to back up the CCW's effect on violent crime. There was a study done on California between counties that made it easier to get a CCW permit and those who didn't. Guess which ones had the drop in violent crime?
At least they require permits. This limits the availabilty somewhat as to who is willing to go tthrough the procedure to obtain the permit. I had a co-worker who was authorized to teach the required class here in San Antonio. When they first offered the course, he was swamped with requests, and was offering the classes almost every day of the week. Six months later, he was down to one class a week. Now he hardly gets any requests to teach. Was is because people lost interest, or because of the deterrent from getting the extensive background check performed and then sitting in the class? Arizona is gonna let any Joe Schmo that owns a gun the abilty to walk around with it stuck in their pants. No class, no anything, except the basic two or three day waiting period you have to go through to buy a gun.
It's called complacency. After a while, no one will care if they see someone walking around with a gun showing. Will they be able to walk into stores, movies, banks, malls, bars, churches, offices with the gun? That'll be fun. Couple guys get wasted in a bar, get ticked off at one another, and BAM! If they didn't have the capability to have a gun on their person at the time, cooler heads may prevail, and there would be a different outcome.

 

[stdreb27]

Once again, all these hypotheticals. Look, if you want to talk something that really kills people? Why not just ban alcohol? I'm gonna venture to guess (outside of war) more people die of causes related to alcohol every year. Than a gun...