ATS Sump Design. Need thoughts/opinions.

snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
So, I have been thinking about remodeling my 10g sump for my 20g reef tank. I have been doing a heck of a lot of research on algae turf scrubbers, hence ATS Sump. I'm not going to debate anyone on the use or non-use of a turf algae scrubber, because I have seen the wonderful effects first hand and I love them. I am not a fan of skimmers, so I believe I have found a great replacement.
For this build, I am going to have to re-do all of the plumbing and take a razor blade to my sump to re-arrange everything. I am going to purchase new glass baffles for this project as well. So, first take a look at the simple design and read the entire description first.

So, I measured out how big my pump is and I figure I need about 8" of pump room with the baffles. That leaves 12" worth of screen room, minus one inch for water to flow off of it. So the screen itself will be 9.75" wide by 11" long. This screen has 107.25 square inches worth of screen to use for filtration. From what I am reading, a horizontal ATS needs 4x the amount of surface room as a double sided verticle ATS to get the same amount of filtration. So, I took that 107.25 and divided it by 4 to get 26.81. That number represents the number of gallons that particular screen can handle. Since this will be on a 20g tank, I believe I have an adequate amount of screen for this setup. This particular calculation does not count the additional screen/glass used for the angle of the screen.
The screen will be made out of plastic canvas found at any hobby/sewing/craft shot. I am going to take a hole saw to scratch/rough up the entire screen. I am also going to be double screening it to make it even more rough to get the algae to hold on really well. The plastic canvas will be super glue gelled entirely to the glass. Remember, the glass being used for the ATS will be completely removable. If you notice, the ATS glass actually has a "lip" on it so it will be easily removable.
As for water flow, I calculate that the amount of water coming from my return pump down the overflow is 187gph, which is a little less than adequate for the operation of the ATS, however additional flow can be provided via powerhead from the return pumps chamber if deemed completely inadequate.
Live rock rubble will be placed below the screen, so that the water from the screen can pass through it for additional filtration. I am actually considering adding a small powerhead to the bottom of this sump so that detritus can be stirred up and returned back into the display tank.
So, that is the description. Let me know what you think - and if you run a horizontal ATS and have any experience with it's operation, please chime in!
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I am going to be getting some of the materials for this project over the course of the rest of this week and I am going to probably be doing the whole build this weekend. I am going to take as many pics as possible to show the entire process for those of you who are interested in this form of filtration.
For the light box, I am going to use standard "warm" 23w CFL bulbs because they will have to be replaced every three months and because it will give an adequate amount of light to the screen. Here is a diagram of the light box:

Description of light box:
The box will be made out of poplar wood, or another suitable wood, approximately 1/2" thick. The top will be able to open on hinges in the back. The light box is designed to be easily removed. The wood will be painted with a white gloss spray paint and allowed to dry. On the top of the box, there will be a piece of flashing screwed into the top as a sort of reflector. I am going to let the sides of the box remain gloss white. Sockets will be installed in only one side of the light, and both lights will be able to be turned on at the same time on a timer. 16 hours on and 8 hours off. The 8 hours that the light is off will be when the main tanks display lights are on. There will be a couple of wooden "tabs" in place to keep the box from moving around on top of the sump.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
A few more thoughts:
1. If the water heats up too much, I am going to add a fan on the side of the light box with a couple of vent holes. If the fan is causing too much evaporation, I am going to add a piece of glass that sits on top of the 10g sump underneath the light box. This should prevent a lot of condensation on the bulbs and heat in the tank.
2. On top of the light box, I am probably going to set a 1g jug of kalkwasser mix and put it on a digital ATO (auto top off) I've been dosing my tank with kalkwasser mix for years and I wouldn't go without it now.
3. The ATS screen is specifically designed to be removed quickly even though there is the light box and overflow in the way. I don't like a whole bunch of hassle when starting to clean something.
4. If the light is too bright at night (since it is in my/our bedroom) I will add a piece of black cloth to the back of the light box to cover some of the light coming from behind the tank. Other then that, there's not much I can do.
5. I am going to post results, reviews, and everything else that has to do with my ATS in this thread. I will probably link this thread with my main tank build thread.
6. I hope you enjoy reading!!!!!!
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I like the design, but I'm puzzled why you'd want detritus returned back to the DT???? Isn't are objective to remove detritus from the DT or keeping it suspended in the water column so it can be removed by some other method???
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
I'll buy that to a certain extent!!!! What's the long term viability of the system? I forget the site, but there's a company making units, and read of a long time supporter of the method, but then a sudden die off and he scraped the system???? Still not sold this method would totally eliminate a skimmer all together??? Any system run solely on this method strictly on a SPS dominated reef?
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I couldn't think of any completely SPS dominated reef tanks right off hand that is only run on a turf algae scrubber. I have read on forums where people have, but I can't find any pictures. The pics though that I really like and want to replicate is from our friend, SantaMonica, who is the "reinventor" of the ATS. Here's a pic of his tank:

His system is completely run off of an ATS. There is no filtration devices other than the ATS, this means no filter padding, no foam blocks, no protein skimmer, no nothing besides basic equipment: lights, heater, return pump, sump etc. And guess what Acrylic? BARE BOTTOM! lol. I believe he has a more recent pic with a lot more SPS corals. Monti's and acro's etc. etc. I'll try to find it later.
How many tanks have you seen with all kinds of filtration and skimmers and chemical dosers that doesn't look near that pretty? I certainly haven't. Most reef tanks (without ATS's) have a little patch of algae here and there or the water isn't very clear or there's always a problem with water quality...
An ATS is even recommended by (Dr.?) Eric Borneman as the most natural form of filtration for our aquariums. I ask if he's a Doc yet because last time I heard he was still going to school at UTH.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Not doubting the thinking or technology!!!! I'm actually a fan of BB tanks. Have never been an advocate of a need for a sanded by any means even though some state/think it's a must. I'd like to learn/explore a little more on the idea if you have some links/info. I have more than enough space in the sump to employ thi sort of filtration.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Long term viability?? As long as you clean half of the scrubber every five to seven days in TAP WATER (to kill the copepods that eat the algae underneath the layers of algae) and you use the proper flow rates and replace your CFL bulbs once every 3 to 4 months then the system can be run indefinitely. What happens is that the nuisance algae that would usually grow in your display tank finds a much better place to grow (on your screen) and the screen can be cleaned instead off instead of trying to clean the rocks off in your display. The ATS algae saturates the water with O2, balances pH (because it's on an opposite timer than your display) increases alkalinity and it's a great way to cool your water too if you add a fan.
The ATS pulls out inorganic nitrate and inorganic phosphate out of the water - that which can't be used by corals or your live rock. It even removes most/all organic nitrate and phosphate from the water column. Infact, over time some people have seen a build up of dust on their rocks, which is phosphate that has been absorbed into their rocks that is now leaching out because there is a lot less phosphate in the water column! Even that is removed over time. Even though it removes all of that nitrate and phosphate from the system, it leaves in the good stuff: Coral food such as zooplankton, phytoplankton, bacteria, bits of algae, coral mucus, borings, and even fecal matter that are used for filter feeders including but not limited to clams, tube worms, anemones, corals and all manner of filter feeders etc. etc.
Real ocean SPS dominated reefs are actually nutrient rich reefs, believe it or not. They have tons and tons of zooplankton, phyto and bacteria etc. etc. in the water column that the corals feed on. By protein skimming our tanks, we are REMOVING those POC (particulate organic compounds) that the corals feed on. I am now convinced that all of the "green gunk" that we have been removing out of the collection cups of protein skimmers is actually the stuff that corals and other filter feeders need to survive. The green gunk, if left in the tank will eventually break down into nitrate and phosphate - but the problem is that if you protein skim, you are removing it before corals have a chance to feed on it!
It's the harmful DOC (Dissolved Organic Compounds) such as nitrate and phosphate that we need to remove from our systems, not coral food. So, if you leave the "green gunk" and refuse to skim, then you will have more food for your corals to eat. But, then there's the problem of the leftovers. This is where the ATS comes in and grows (hair) algae and other algaes to feed on the nitrate and phosphate that we actually need to remove from the system.
For my tank, I am going to go filterless and rely only on an ATS.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Sure, here's a link to the thread on here that got me started into it. Of course, there are better threads on other forums because there are more pictures and links to equipment etc. The ATS can be as expensive or dirt cheap as you want to go!
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/330606/mega-powerful-nitrate-and-phosphate-remover-replaces-skimmer-refugium-everything
Just as a side note, it doesn't replace everything. You still have to do the occasional water change, you still have to have pumps, powerheads, heaters and lighting. lol.
Also, if you currently run a refugium with macroalgae - you will notice that the macro won't grow anymore over time. LOL!
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
So, I did a little math and a 10g ATS Sump can handle the bioload of a tank that is at maximum 26.8 gallons. A 20g long ATS Sump can handle a max bioload on a 45g tank. I'll calculate one for a 55g sump, but by the time you get into having a 55g sump, you pretty much need a verticle ATS, not a horizontal ATS.
Some of our members that are still on this site have set them up. I'm not sure if they have any still operational or not. ATS's are pretty much a dirty word in the saltwater aquarium hobby because a lot of people advocate the use of skimmers and chemical/mechanical filtration "because that's the way it has worked for years." I am really going against the grain here.
 
al&burke

al&burke

Active Member
Are you still thinking of going on an angle, they are more efficient when they are verticle. I have one and I think they work great.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Yes, I am going to be using regular house flashing if I can find it. The reason being is that it's cheap - like... free...where I can find it. I wouldn't recommend setting it up without reflectors.
Yes, I am going to go with the horizontal screen - mainly because of the space constraints in my tank stand. I also feel like if I create the light box, it will give me more room to place a one gallon water jug on top of it for kalkwasser top offs.
I know that horizontal screens are not as "efficiant", however I did do some calculations... I will have ~108 square inches of screen, and from what I have read, you will need four times the amount of area for a horizontal screen. So, I took the 108 and divided by 4. It comes to a screen that will handle a bioload for almost 27 gallons, which is 7 more gallons then what I need.
What I mainly like as well with this ATS sump design is that all of the water passes through live rock on it's way back to the return pump... and it will take a "long time" for the water to pass, which will give it more time to get rid of any micro bubbles. The design also doesn't allow for any water spillage - which makes it quiet, efficiant and easy to modify.
If I have some time this evening I may go out to lowes to buy some glass to re-do my sump tonight. Brace for pics!
Acrylic, in the next post I will show you some flow rates etc. that will work.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
The first and main thing to consider is the flow to the screen. You need about 35 gph (gallons per hour) for every inch of width of the screen. Thus, a 2" wide screen would need 70 gph, and so on. Here is a chart:
Screen Width-----Gallons Per Hour (GPH)
1" 35
2" 70
3" 105
4" 140
5" 175
6" 210
7" 245
8" 280
9" 315
10" 350
11" 385
12" 420
13" 455
14" 490
15" 525
16" 560
17" 595
18" 630
19" 665
20" 700
Note that for flow, it does not matter how tall your screen is, just how wide it is.
Here are some advantages of an algae scrubber:
o Allows you to feed very high amounts without causing nuisance algae growth in the tank.
o Can replace waterchanges, IF THE PURPOSE of the waterchange is to reduce nitrate or
phosphate or nuisance algae. Otherwise, it does NOT replace the water change.
o Grows swarms of copepods.
o Increases pH.
o Increases oxygen.
o Will NOT spread algae into the tank. It removes algae FROM the tank.
o There is no odor from the algae (only a slight ocean smell when cleaning it).
o Is very quiet when flowing, similar to a tabletop decorative waterfall. Your pumps are louder.
o Introduces no microbubbles when built properly.
o Removes ammonia too.
o Works in saltwater, freshwater, and ponds too.
(copy and pasted from SantaMonica's thread: Mega powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover)
 
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