Auto-top off...How do I do it...no sump...

[jarice1978]

Hello,
I searched for a bit and couldn't find my situation.
I have an Air-Water-Ice RO/DI unit.
Currently it is under the kitchen sink and has a hose going to the garage where I have a garbage can that has a float valve(from airwaterice). The garbage can has a spicket on the bottom and I am CONTINUOUSLY filling up gallons of water and topping off!
How can I stop doing this?
I do not have a sump.
I need something simple. (Directions and pictures, and parts list)
Something cheap.
Would it be possible to just use the float valve that is currently on my garbage can and put it on my tank? The only problem I see with this is that I can not drill through the glass. I would need to rig up some kind of board or plastic that would sit on the rim of the tank and drill a hole through it for the float valve.
Help please. I should have done this a long time ago but all the directions I have seen are not very complete.
Thanks,
Adam

 

[susiestank]

I would like to see what can be done also. I have a tank without a sump as well. I feel the pain of the jug filling and topping off.

 

[trippkid]

You could make some type of acrylic or sturdy plastic holder and attach somewhere? at the top of the tank, problem with that is the trash can needs to be above the tank. The only way I see to get away from filling the buckets is to get a small pump(Magdrive?) and pump it back into the tank from where your trash can is. Otherwise, I think you may need to go with sump if you want a gravity type auto top off system, I could be wrong here, I am not real familiar with all of the electronic systems for this, I don't know if you can hook directly up to the tank. I'd just buy a small pump and some hose to reach the tank and do it that way.

 

[ameno]

I have the same unit and the float valve. I have read that it is not a good idea to use the float valve to on and off the DI unit, air water and ice claims this because the water quality is not as good on the first bit of water it produces, and would be on and of to often. So what I plan to do is use a container as a holding resevoir such as your doing and as trippkid said use a pump to pump to the tank. you could use a small dosing unit or aqulifter pump and use a level controller to put in the tank. That way you can still use your float as a safety shut-off on you holding resevior then set your level control on the tank to turn on the supply pump. should be able to get all that for under $100.

 

[jarice1978]

Thanks for the responses.
Here is the issue...
My RO/DI unit is in-between my tank and garbage storage can. The total space between the tank and the garbage can is about 50 - 60 feet and a few walls. So I think I would need to relocate or create a new storage tank much closer right?
So how about this proposed system:
--Storage tank (5 gallons) under my main tank.
--Hook up RO/DI with float valve to the storage.
--Buy a electrical float valve switch that turns on a pump in storage tank when the level is low.
When the pump turns on and pumps water from the storage into the main tank the float valve in the storage tank kicks in and starts to fill the storage back up.
Is this normally how it is done?
If so, the question is:
1.) What is a good electrical switch system?
2.) What power head or pump is strong enough to pump water from the storage tank below to the main tank above? (can it be small enough to use the small 1/4 inch hose to pump water up? The bigger hoses are an eye sore...)
3.) What is the difference between this and a sump?
Also, to discuss the RO/DI quality problem in small increments...
How would you get around this issue. Wether you are directly hooking up the float valve to the tank or to a resevoir it is still turning on the RO/DI for each bit of water that extracted. Same situation in my current storage tank. I am filling up gallon jugs one at a time so the most that the RO/DI unit is ever on is for a couple gallons at a time.
Thanks again,
Adam

 

[ameno]

I'll see if I can answer most of this.
If you could get the storage resevoir closer that would be a big plus. But as far as size that dependes on how much evaporation you get. For example the system I am setting up I am planning on around 2.5 gal. a day evap. so I want to set up at least 12 to 15 gal. storage. The Dt you want to keep at a pretty constant level so your level control is pretty tight. In your holding tank you can have a larger range say in the five gal. container you could have it turn on when it gets down to one gal. and turn off when it's close to full.
Question one. I can't really say which is best. I have seen several on different supply sites, have not looked here to see if they have one or not. I would think there should not be much difference in the units. check out aquahub.com they have some good ideas.
Question two. an aqulifter is only good for up to 30" of head so you may just have to check around and find a low volume pump that with pump the height you need.
Question three. a sump is set up usually with an overflow to refugium and skimmer areas and then feed back to the sump then the DT. and also helps with controlling the level in the main tank because there is were the water level drops and new water is added. and there is enough room built in to handle water from the DT if the sump pump fails and backfeeds the system.
Hope this helps some

 

[ameno]

One think I sould have mentioned, your float valve is not going to give you the kind of range I was talking about. Here's what I plan to do with mine. Leave the ro/di unit off and when the storage gets low I would turn the ro/di supply on and fill the storage tank back up. the float valve in the storage tank would just be a safety so you would not overfill in case you weren't there watching it.

 

[trippkid]

Originally Posted by ameno
One think I sould have mentioned, your float valve is not going to give you the kind of range I was talking about. Here's what I plan to do with mine. Leave the ro/di unit off and when the storage gets low I would turn the ro/di supply on and fill the storage tank back up. the float valve in the storage tank would just be a safety so you would not overfill in case you weren't there watching it.
That is a good idea, one less bell or whistle to fail when you don't want it to.
The RO wouldn't need a shutoff solenoid then, you would need one to kick the pump on to fill your resevoir, or you could do that yourselt too. The problem is then getting the water up to the main tank via 1/4" tubing. I'm not sure if a MJ1200 will push it high enough for you, I'd try it first, if it doesn't, you'll need some thing like a magdrive3.5 or 5. You'll need a JACO hose adapter, which is a 3/4"thread, so you need to step up to 3/4" from whatever pump to accept the 3/4" hose adapter, then you can hook up the 1/4" line to that. I'll post a pic as to the adapter.

 

[ameno]

I agree, the only thing is these units come with a solenoid valve built in. and when the product water is stopped the solenoid valve tripps and stops water from going thru the membraine and to waste water. So with the float you can stopp the flow to the storage and prevent overfilling.

 

[trippkid]

Here is a pic of the hose adapter, it is connected to a ball valve in the pic.

Matt

 

[jarice1978]

Okay. I am getting a little lost. I think you are both pretty much saying what I am saying.
Want to make clear that the AirWaterIce RO/DI has an automatic shut-off valve. This gets tripped off when the float valve shuts off due to enough water in the storage tank. When this happens the RO/DI unit stops processing water completely(no product water, no waste water).
At this point I guess it is important to know the exact fittings necessary to convert my maxi-jet 1200 down to a 1/4. I am not to familiar with all of the plumbing pieces! If the maxi-1200 does not work I will look into other pumps (Mag drive 3.5 or 5 right?).
Also, what is the purpose of the solenoid? Is that the same as the automatic shutoff that is already on my RO/DI unit?
Okay, time to get started! I will start looking for a resevior container for under the tank tonight!
Thanks again. If I am getting something confused please correct me.
Adam

 

[ameno]

Your right the ro/di has an auto shut off, thats the built in solenoid valve I was talking about. it is a built in pressure solenoid valve that shuts the system down when the float stops the flow. your maxi-1200 is good up to a height of 5'9". so if your more then that you will need to look for a different pump.