Auto Top-Off system

thegrog

Active Member
Hmmmm...... :notsure: :notsure:
I have to think about the previous two ideas. I'll get back to you after work.
As far as the pressurized lines, no worries there. They are the same hard lines that my RO system uses. They are under pressure all the time and never had a leak. May have to replace in 5 years or something, but no worries there. They are the hard plastic lines, not soft like air lines. As for the fittings, just have to keep an eye on them.
 

tanker555

Member
OK, Zman, All elecrical stuff would be totally dry, not in the water at all. thanks for the line info, I never thought about the fridge, and icemaker stuff, good point.
 

tanker555

Member
OK, I drew it out and know Grainger also sells relay and base units fairly cheap. Hope the visual helps in the wiring, what do you think, any suggestions??
 

thegrog

Active Member
Hmmmm.....ahhhhh........oohhhhhh.....I see.
OK, your design would work, bit I think it is getting a bit complicated. I kind of like the KISS principle (Keep It Simple and Stupid). If you did want to go that way though, it would work.
A few things though. The way the float switches are designed, the wiring goes into a tube at the top and the remainder of the tube is totally sealed. The opening at the top of the tube is then sealed. In my design, the top of the tube never comes in contact with the water at all so there is no chance of the wires even getting wet (unless there is a stuck float) so that reduces the chances of a short to near zero. The floats are designed to work in acidic/caustic conditions so I am not worried about corrosion. With your design, the low float would be completely submerged a good deal of the time. Having that wire under water that much would worry me. So, to sum up, my design has all electrical wiring out of the water. In fact, the solenoid assembly is over a foot from the sump so if salt creep gets to it......I got major neglect problems!!
Another concern with your design is that, depending on the size of your sump return chamber, you could be adding several gallons at a time. With a tank like my 125, that won't do much to the salinity level, but may cause minor swings in a smaller system.
Yes, I found that it does cycle on and off more than 5 times per day. Probably once per hour is what I am thinking now. It is on for 10-20 seconds. May get to be more often in the summer with evaporation increasing and the fans on the tank. That is a lot of cycling, but the valves are designed to cycle dozens of times per hour and last for years. I am not worried about wear.....it least for the next few years. Still, I will be inspecting on a regular basis.
So, what are your ideas?
This is what I like about this forumn. People bouncing ideas off each other!!
 

zman1

Active Member
You can also operate the floats through a low voltage/current DC circuit and switch the AC externally to operate the Sloenoid through a relay or TRIAC. This is a common practice in industry. It's a little more complicated than the KISS method..... Plus this minimizes contact piting on the float switches by not swiching the 120VAC through them to operate the soleniod.
My float switches - one is submerged and the other gets submerged from back syphon when I turn the main pump off. I will have to meter them. I have the JBJ manufactured ATO. I am betting it is DC controlled and AC is relayed switched. If it's not it's a poor design then...
 

tanker555

Member
Originally Posted by TheGrog
Hmmmm.....ahhhhh........oohhhhhh.....I see.
A few things though. The way the float switches are designed, the wiring goes into a tube at the top and the remainder of the tube is totally sealed. The opening at the top of the tube is then sealed. In my design, the top of the tube never comes in contact with the water at all so there is no chance of the wires even getting wet (unless there is a stuck float) so that reduces the chances of a short to near zero. The floats are designed to work in acidic/caustic conditions so I am not worried about corrosion. With your design, the low float would be completely submerged a good deal of the time. Having that wire under water that much would worry me. So, to sum up, my design has all electrical wiring out of the water. In fact, the solenoid assembly is over a foot from the sump so if salt creep gets to it......I got major neglect problems!!
Well, I guess I was a little vague in giving you a good vision, mechanically. Don't forget this is only in the planning stages and has lots of room for improvement.
1. There would be 3 PVC tubes with holes for the water to enter standing from the bottom of the sump to about 6" above....with say...wooden dowel pins in the center of the PVC tubes, with a rack of switches COMPLETELY LEVEL right near the top of the tubes, you can adjust the gallons added by the length of the dowels or whatever buoyant material you plan to use, the switches I have are sealed mercury switches and will be "tipped" up when the dowel hits the the blade it is mounted on. There are no contacts to maintain, and the relay will be good for years... Your floats sound nice and would like more info where you got them and how you have them rigged, and any more suggestions. Zman, no contacts, and the Triac is possible but not so practical, you would be needing, a rectifier, 2 resistors, and a step down transformer, not to mention when Triacs go...they tend to stick open because the gate fires and fails to close, which would be treachorous...if my relay fails it just won't pick.
 

thegrog

Active Member
Originally Posted by Tanker555
Your floats sound nice and would like more info where you got them and how you have them rigged, and any more suggestions.

I listed where I got them earlier in the thread. The are from Grainger. Theya re the polyproplyene (sp?) float switches. AS for how to rig them, look at the second pic in my initial post. I have them rigged to some PVC piping.
I thought about having them inside some sort of tube to protect them more, but that just increases the probability that a small snail or peice of algae can get wedged in there and cause one to stick. Having them open seemed to be the best option and, to date, not a single problem with them getting stuck. I just inspected them this morning and don't even see any salt creep on the fixture!!! This may be due to the fact that when I shut off the return pump during water changes (weekly) the back flow submerges both floats and gives them a cleaning. Didn't figure that in the design, but I'll take it!!
As for running DC, they do make the solenoid coil in a DC version....just costs more.
I rechecked my wiring and I actually have the neutral wire running through the float switches and the hot wire going to the coil. So, the only way current can make it to my tank is if the coil itself fails and sticks open AND there is a short in the float switch wiring AND the lower float fails and submerges the float. Not a bad safety system. I am more concerned with stray voltage from a powerhead than from my topoff system!
 

tanker555

Member
aah, good deal with going with the neutral through the contacts. I didn't realize the float switch was a Grainger item till I went back and read your post again, sorry. I'm filling my 180 now as we speak(my first saltwater) and I'm going with a reef...as time allows I'll post the finished product as far as the top-off goes, thanks for the info...Dave.
 
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