baby tank

[zeke92]

so if i ever get baby horses, what is the minumum tank size the babies would need to growup in? would a 10 gallon be big enough? most likely for kuda, i doubt i will get any other types.
anyway i was basically just wondering what the smallest tank i should have incase any in the future get pregnant so i know what to do. my 10 gallon is empty and i can move the rock out and add fake plants and do whatever i need to to make it nice for them. would it be big enough? just need to know how big it would need to be to keep babies UNTIL there old enough to be sold or put in my big tank.

 

[nybutterfly03]

May i caution you at attemting to raise fry....It is VERY difficult to keep them alive
any filter u have in the reaing tank can kill them they are SO small....and there are very FEW horses that can hitch from birth so that makes it even harder.
My fry tank was a bare bottom 2.5g hex with an open-ended air tube....I had unexpexted fry but did my best at trying to raise them but did not work out too well it was VERY hard to make sure they were all eating. I was feeding my fry bbs 3x a day. The longest I had one SINGLE lil baby was 3months.

 

[zeke92]

yeah i know it will be hard, i don't plan on 'attempting' that until i get some kuda and have them stay alive for a while. but i just wanted to make sure i would have the stuff needed to be ready incase.
feeding them would probably be the hardest part i'm guessing.

 

[teresaq]

and keeping them from snicking air.
Each horse has its own requirments for fry.
southern erectus hitch at birth, and take bbs
nothern erectus dont
reidi fry dont hitch and take rotifers and bbs
ect.
reserch the species of horse you own, and the different nursery setup.

 

[nybutterfly03]

When I had my 1st batch (unexpectedly) I hatched BBS as I didnt know what else to give them at the time. the one thrived like I said for 3months.
I googled they type of fry I had and got tons of info. I would start there
I agree with T, u MUST make sure they dont snick air! I found that by bringing the light near the bottom of the tank during feedings drew the BBS & fry to the bottom which seemed to help and it makes it much easier to watch and make sure the fry are eating.
Like I said it is a VERY difficult task and if u ever do get the oportunity, I wish u the best with them and not that I would be much help but Im always around if u do have questions!

 

[suzy]

Zeke, might I start by saying I LOVE your enthusiasm?
I have been attempting to breed a few different species of MO for a bit, and I really would love some insight from a dedicated hobbyist who has NOT read tons of seahorse forums that have raised fry a specific way with specific results. Before I tell you what has worked (and not worked) for me, can I ask you for your help? A hobbyist thinking outside-the-box so-to-speak?
Let me preface this by saying we are not anywhere near where we need to be in captive breeding this genus. The syngnathid genus is expected to be extinct in our lifetime. Hobbyists and commercial breeders will keep this genus around for a while (I hope!). This genus has something others don't: easily identified pairs. If we combine a male and female, easily visually identified, we will get fry. Most MO don't give us that part! We just need to figure out how to raise the fry.
But, those of us attempting to breed have reached a point of stagnation. I really think we need new ideas, new methods and new blood.
You, maybe? What do you think? I tell you the issues, you come up with possible solutions? If you want, I can pick your brain in PM form, but it would be cool if others reading this throw in ideas, concepts, problems and solutions.....

 

[nybutterfly03]

Geez Suzy i hope u arent thinking I am one of those 'Ive read all the forums and know it all" u were reffering to
I was just offering my opinion and experiance thats all
sorry if I came across that way

 

[suzy]

NO, no, please don't think that. That is soooo not what I mean.
Just between you and I, I must say I am to the point where I want to find hobbyists outside our circle, to find those clues we are missing. I am so frustrated with spending so much time on these guys and have them just waste away for no reason. Plus, the CB stock we are offered are so immuno compromised, they are frail and fragile.
I have had wild caught seahorses and CB are really different. I was hoping to get some people thinking about the issues we have that have not already made conclusions and can maybe come up with thoughts, and rationales that we haven't. We are missing something.
Please, don't be offended? I really love these fish and need your help.

 

[teresaq]

Me either.

Reading and talking to others that have done it is how we learn. Yes I have talked to someone that is sucessful in raising erectus, Yes I have thought about trying my hand at it, yes I have read everyhing I can on how others have done it.
sorry, I was posting the same time as you

 

[suzy]

OK, ladies. I can do this privately with Zeke. But, you're going be bummed if we come up with the something cool! How do we know Zeke is not the next Julian Sprung?

 

[zeke92]

maby because i'm 15?

well i agree i do sorta get sick of some people on other forums saying the same exact things, no one EVER trying new things because, heaven forbid, our world moves past the current waypoint.
i also agree we need to think of new ways, i have been thinking non-stop since i've had these problems with my horses.
1 theory. STOP THE MADNESS do you really think a seahorse is gonna live better in a tall hex 50+ gallon tank with a certain amount of fake plants, a certian equation to the amount of live sand and rock you add, and exactly how you do things? lets think differently ok? now here is my thoughts. i'm going to buy more rock soon, i'm going to buy live rock, very very live rock, best rock i can find and afford with as much crap on it as possible. i'm also gonna look for somewhere where i can get it uncured and right from the ocean, not some thats been sitting there for a long time waiting for a buyer. this will give us some 'new things' that our base rock piece of crap doesn't i'm sure. we need our tanks to be like the wild don't we? well nice live rock will giv us step 1 am i right?
another thing is only live food. we feed them what, 2-3 times a day, same time every day, with supplements. thats not how they live there wild lives. they hunt little specks floating around and hiding in the rock, not swimming over from there fake blue plant into there feeding bowl for some frozen mysis and garlic.
also, about our captive breeds being SOO fragile...breeding in the conditions i'm going to TRY to create in my tank i think this will change. if we create a more natural tank, with natural critters in it like a natural area seahorses would live in, i think there would be less problems with the babies.
tonga branch, a bunch of kelp and seagrass, snails and crabs alike along with maby a goby and a few small fish from there same ecosystem, and fluorescent lighting (not anything stronger since there light sensitive and come from dark muddy areas), doesn't that sound more, oh, i don't know, seahorsey?
i'll post more later, i'm going to do LOTS of research on seahorse's natural habitats. i'm done reading other peoples guides online about how to breed horses and raise them.
if a mouse is in a maze, and keeps going the same (wrong) direction, he will NEVER get to the cheese. so the mouse must learn to try other directions. <-- i would like to copyright this?

 

[nybutterfly03]

Suzy, I was hoping u would say that.....I thought maybe I came across rude or something.....I was on here last night after a LONG day at work and had 3 kids wanting my attention at the same time

I am no expert that is for sure so I am def interested in what is workin or not working for others, so count me in for helping the survival of our horses!!

 

[suzy]

Yahoo! We have some out-of-the-tank thinkers here! This should be a good discussion!
3 kids? Well, if anyone can think creatively, I think it is you!
Zeke, you have some very valid points. The health of the parents would definately affect the viability of their offspring. Having a lot of good quality live rock will be an excellent source of food for them, for a short time. In a captive environment, seahorses can quickly decimate the microfauna population. I wonder if there is a way we could grow live food, the food they naturally eat, outside their tank to feed (or supplement) their diet?
How about waiting just a few days to start researching? I want ideas from your head!

 

[teresaq]

I agree that more natural may be healthier for our horses. A lrg tank with a large fuge stocked with copods, amphpods and mysis. Start with healthy brood stock that has not been interbred or from parents that have been over bred.

 

[nybutterfly03]

I have a 2.5g tanks set up JUST for growing the pods. I syphon them out and add to my tanks and the horses love it!

 

[zeke92]

well i think one goal would be to create a tank, sort of like my 'pond' tank that i've created in my garage, that can take care of it'self somewhat. where it's as close to the natural environment as possible, where there si plenty of places for pods and other thigns to hide. my 'pond' tank has 3 (used to have more) bass minnows, but there actually about 2-3 years old but never grew up. it also has a crawdad thats about 3-4 inches big thta i've had since it was a newborn, the tank is basically self-sustainable. i still feed the fish flakes sometimes just as a treat but the critters in that tank, the way i've,after many years, created, keeps the amount of animals in the tank high enough to keep the larger ones alive and healthy. that would be the goal, yes?
although an out-of-tank breeding station wouldn't hurt i'm sure.
Teresa, no offense but it sounds like your still 'in the box'. "a fuge for pods with a nice sand bed maby a bit of rock rubble blah blah". thats pretty in the box if you ask me =P
what i was thinking, a fuge, yes, but with a muddy sand bed? maby, just MABY, something that helps the seahorses live, some symbiotic thingy, lives in mud. i know there natural homes are sometimes muddy, i think...so maby a bit of mud FROM THE OCEAN, RIGHT from there habitat, would be helpful? don't ask me how we would get mud from there habitat, but mud from any other area would be as pointless as taking mud from the yard if you ask me.
i've just got the fake plants out fo my tank, and will most likely get some kelp of some sort by the time i get new horses. maby the plants have something to do with it? thats what i'll talk about next
PLANT THEORY
Ok, well plants release O2 during the day and the bad stuff at night. maby these changes throughout the day have something to do with the seahorses health. i mean, sure, there is tons of water in the ocean that this O2 and carbon dioxide can scatter once it's released but there is massive amounts of plants near horses in the wild. maby these changes have something to do with there health, there sleeping cycle? maby it's like a freshwater clams luner cycle, they have a oxygen cycle? i'm going to try to get tons of plants, not so many that they don't have room to swim of course, but i'm going to get kelp, i'm going to let my eelgrass spread more, and i'm going to get some plants that stay small near the sand aswell. maby this is a big discovery or maby it's just me thinking to much

 

[teresaq]

offence taken. How else do you plan on supplying your tanks with enough pods to feed one or more horses unless you have a fuge for them to grow in. an adult horse will wipe out your pod population before they can reproduce. Yes you can have anther system to breed them in, but why not have that system connected to your main tank. less work trying to transfer pods all the time. sometime the box is a good thing especially when it come to the health and well being of our animals.

 

[nybutterfly03]

Well said T!!!!

 

[zeke92]

well i guess me and suzy should take this conversation private if your going to be hostile.
were trying to duplicate the wild in our tanks as much as we can, if we can do that with lots of real live rock and lots of real live plants, 'in the box' stuff like you are still pushing into our 'out of the box' conversation may not be relevant.
were trying to think of new ways to keep horses, because, if you have been under a rock the past month or so, the way everyone thinks is the right way isn't working out too much.

 

[teresaq]

Originally Posted by zeke92
http:///forum/post/2497132
well i guess me and suzy should take this conversation private if your going to be hostile.
.
I dont beleive I was being hostile, just a little offended by your statement
(Teresa, no offense but it sounds like your still 'in the box'. "a fuge for pods with a nice sand bed maby a bit of rock rubble blah blah". thats pretty in the box if you ask me =P)
I was trying to say that you can not support adult horses without a fuge and a growing pod population.
Instead of looking at whats wrong with your tank, you should be looking at your horses. buying pen raised horses that are not healthy (they may look great) but they have been raised in adverse conditions. without proper care.
properly raises captive breed horses are what you should be looking at buying and using as brood stock and or pets.
T