baby tank

zeke92

zeke92

Active Member
i bought great captive breed seahorses and every single one died.
one reason the horses are always so fragile is there raised, breed, and born in tanks like a bubble-boy.
now imagine some kid being born and imediatly being put into a house. he eats the exact amount of vegies and fruit and all the food groups your suggested to eat, bathes twice a day, brushes his teeth after every meal. he never leaves the house, only goes to the green house area of this 'bubble house'.
now, do you expect this kid to be very immune or strong if he was thrown into the real world? i don't.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/2496194
I agree that more natural may be healthier for our horses. A lrg tank with a large fuge stocked with copods, amphpods and mysis. Start with healthy brood stock that has not been interbred or from parents that have been over bred.

I completely agree with this. Harvesting from a large sump can only be a good idea. I keep thinking about using a different type of fuge plumbed to my tank. Now, I have a 40 ish DIY sump under my tnks, but what if we had a horse trough,or a kiddie pool or a huge rubbermaid tub? It would add volume and a predatorless area for growing food? But, we need to think of something that would take less room, for most of us, anyway. Maybe something taller and skinnier?
I have been thinking the inbred aspect of my stock for a while. I started this herd with Ocean Rider Sunbursts. They have taken H erectus and mated the ones that are the most colrful with their siblings for a few generation to get these "Sunbursts". I add a few Draco Marines, but I think my stock is still pretty lacking in DNA diversity.
Plus, my last batch that have done well (12 are now eating frozen! Yahoo!) are a gorgeous orange bronze male who hooked up with his mommy!
I have heard that the first signs of genetic deformities are dysfunctional fry and I have had a few batches of premature and almost invisible fry.
Astute observations, Girl! Keep it up!
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by NyButterfly03
http:///forum/post/2496331
I have a 2.5g tanks set up JUST for growing the pods. I syphon them out and add to my tanks and the horses love it!
How are you able to siphon the little buggers? They run like gazelles!
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by zeke92
http:///forum/post/2496370
sort of like my 'pond' tank that i've created in my garage, that can take care of it'self somewhat.

What a great idea! We could make what ever size or shape fits our situation!
Originally Posted by zeke92
http:///forum/post/2496370
Teresa, no offense but it sounds like your still 'in the box'.
Kiddo! Don't poopoo any ideas! We need all our brains here! Maybe you already thought of something, but maybe I haven't! Outside-the-tank thinking means maybe doing what we've done, with a few tweaks here and there?
Originally Posted by zeke92
http:///forum/post/2496370
with a muddy sand bed?
i've just got the fake plants out fo my tank,
Another great idea! Mud! There is a product made by Ecosystems called "Miracle Mud" that we could use as a base for the refugium. But, it is a dry product so it won't have the lifeforms we need...I think we can get lots of lifeforms (aka biodiversity) from live rock but maybe there is something in the mud where syngnathids live that is lacking in what we have? Anyone reading this live near the ocean and have a microscope?
Originally Posted by zeke92
http:///forum/post/2496370
Ok, well plants release O2 during the day and the bad stuff at night. i mean, sure, there is tons of water in the ocean that this O2 and carbon dioxide can scatter once it's released but there is massive amounts of plants near horses in the wild. maby these changes have something to do with there health, there sleeping cycle? maby it's like a freshwater clams luner cycle, they have a oxygen cycle?
Well, most seahorses live in the shallow areas near the shore, where the water is really oxygenated all the time. Plant photosynthesis would have no change on oxygen levels, co2 levels of pH. The undertows and waves in and out really provide massive gas exchange. So, I really think this is a valid point for us to consider. Maybe our tanks are not providing the gas exchange vital to health. And, if I add a huge refugium, it will need a lot of water movement to oxygenate it before it goes into the main display. Maybe a surge device?
I have really been thinking about the lunar cycle affects our fish. There are a few studies that are attempting to find ways to make corals spawn using lunar cycles. I think soon we will have a light controller that will be able to do that for us. But, another thing to consider is the seasonal changes of the sun. Shorter days vs longer days? Most species spawn during the summer and take the winter off. I use that to give my captive pets a break but it doesn't work in my tanks. They spawn less but they don't stop completely.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/2496693
Yes you can have anther system to breed them in, but why not have that system connected to your main tank. less work trying to transfer pods all the time.
I have all my tanks together. Nurseries, refugia, ect. But, I wonder if we can find a food species if it might be beneficial to culture outside the system. I have a species of small copepods I use for dwarfs and fry. Every once in a while, it gets contaminated with an amphopod or rotifer which then quickly takes over the culture and the tiny copepod disappears because it can't compete. But, a larger organism might work well in a tank plumbed into a main system. We would have to figure out how to keep the larvae from traveling to the main displays and being consumed by corals or whatever..
I raised those tiny red shrimps that Ocean Rider sells for a while, pretty easily. But, I gave it up because they grew so freakin' slowly. Ghost shrimp, ditto.
Hmmm, this is really something to think about....We can grow amphopods and mysis in a refugium but what other snack is available?
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/2497149
buying pen raised horses that are not healthy (they may look great) but they have been raised in adverse conditions. without proper care.
properly raises captive breed horses are what you should be looking at buying and using as brood stock and or pets.
T
Did someone post at thread about "pen raised" fish here a while back? Someone went around to all the reef forums a while back with a theory that was some what debunked by some of the pro fish raisers. I really think, in the long run, fish that have been raised in the ocean are stronger. But, shipping stress is really hard on them.They really need to be babyed for the first few weeks.
Can you remember the name of the thread?
 
zeke92

zeke92

Active Member
this thread is turning into another "the cuase of our seahorses dying" thread and not a "new ideas" thread.
 
nybutterfly03

nybutterfly03

Member
how do u figure??? we are talking about growing pods outside of having a fuge
ok I missed the squabbling that went on....dont take it so hard as u have said to me b4
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Your right! Back to original question: What size tank do I need for babies?
I can't answer it. Sorry I lured you into thinking I could. Don't be mad at me? I have tried dozens of different types and I could not say one is better than another at this point. I know what seems to work best for me, but I dunno if it would work for you.
Here's the issue: Fry are born incredibly weak and fragile. I've read research papers that state less than 1% live in the wild. The father releases them and they become plankton. If any are able to find food, they might be able to swim, but then they have to find their way back to the reef. In captivity, we don't have that issue, at least! But, our food sources suck. Typically large scale breeders are only able to provide newly hatched brine shrimp which research shows is very lacking in the fatty acids and protein fry need to thrive. And, most other food sources that are nutritious are too large or lack the right motility pattern to entice feeding.
But, for your question, the tank size is not the issue. It is the water quality. If the fry are able to feed, they produce waste. Plus, the food produces waste. For a very delicate fry, any toxic element will either kill it right off, or harm it's delicate immune system so that any opportunist pathogen can attack it's even more weak state.
So, imagine this tiny fry: It is too weak to even swim below the water line. The food is below him, but he is too weak to get to it, let alone have the energy to chase it. Eventually, it succumbs and sinks to the bottom....
 
teresaq

teresaq

Active Member
zek, I am in no way tring to discourage. but sometimes you need to look at what others have done, and improve apon that. Talk to other breeders. Contact Dan Underwood, or Tim ? I'll find his last name. Both are very sucessfull breeders. Yes they have thier problems, but all breeders do.
Next take a look at clownfish breeders. Seahorse fry are not much differant. Look at what the CF breeders are using as far as food for thier fry. What they are using for growout tanks. pretty much the same set up you would need for SH fry.
T
 
zeke92

zeke92

Active Member
one second you guys want new ideas, ideas different from the guides all over the internet that we have been using for years and years. i thought we were gonna try another direction and you were asking me ideas? then it got back into current things and now it's back to the original topic.
i guess some mice will never try the other direction? idk, just seems you guys went right from excited to trying new things to completely forgetting about it and talking about the fry tanks again.
 
suzy

suzy

Member
Zeke, work with me here! I was born blonde and I will dye blond so you gotta cut me some slack! But, I thought you were bummed that I got off topic! We were talking about strengthening the health of our broodstock (parents) in order to get stronger fry, right? If you come up with more stuff, throw it in!
I really think we are missing something. I do not know any successful breeders, IMO. Look at our challenge compared to other MO. Our fish have a definite gender, easily recognized. We have to really jump through hoops, get lucky and pair quite a few fish to get other MO to mate. With seahorses, all we have to do is pick a male and a female and put them in the same tank. Then every 14-18 days, we get hundreds of fry. If a successful breeder was able to raise the 10's of thousands of fry he got yearly, seahorses would be flooding the market and seahorses would be $10 bucks each!
SeahorseSource: I have tried to get a fish from him a while back and he never had them. Last time I talked to him, he had just lost a batch to an infection.
Draco Marine: Went out of business.
ORA: Did they ever get any CB seahorses for sale?
CQuest: I talked to one of their founders a few years back who said they were going to try seahorses. I see their clownfish flooding the market but no seahorses yet.
Home breeders: Why haven't we flooded the market like we do with cichlids?
I think if Zeke could find info on what other successful breeders are doing, I would have found it!
 
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