Bacteria???

[livephish]

so i am new to the hobby, i just finshed adding the fish to the aquarium and had a few questions about water changes and the nitrogen cycle.
first off, water changes, would someone please make a reasonable suggestion as to about how much water and about how often they should be carried out! i have heard from local fish stores 10-15% whenever nitrate levels reach 12.5mg/l. however, i have also heard 5gal water changes every week.... do it when the nitrate levels hit 25mg/l..... every three weeks 10%..... and so on.... so i would like some expert advice on this one please.
secondly, and please correct me if i am wrong, but lets say for instance i have a 55gal tank, i am doing a 15% water change. lets say my nitrate levels are 12.5mg/l. am i correct in assuming if i remove 15% of the water, that i am also removing 15% of the nitrates too, or is that not pausible. and if so, does that also constitute that i am removing 15% of the anaerobic and aerobic bacteria that are vital to the tanks nitrogen cycle.
i would appreciate any replies, feedback, or suggestions.
cheers-livephish

 

[dogstar]

The amount water changes mainly depends on how fast and how high the nitrates and phosphates, ect., get and how good your filtration is and how you replenish depleated elements like Calcium and Alkilinity ( carbonates and bicarbonates ). Each tank and hobbiest is different.
Some reefers never do water changes and some IMO do to much.
IMO larger ones are better if your haveing problems because if you need to get levels down then lowering then by only 10 % is not really helping but I know some will disagree, why not lower them by 50 % if they are too high. If they are not a problem and you do them to replenish elements then small changes are fine as long as you are testing and the changes are enough.
I dont know if this helps or confuses you more.....sorry
Water changes do not remove the bacteria because it lives on surfaces, not in the water. Thats why we use live rock, bio balls, media, ect. is to give the bacteria a plce to live.

 

[granny]

Right! You are not removing 15% of your nitrates, only diluting the remaining water. The percentage of nitrates, phosphates, whatever are the same in the remaining water as they were in the water you removed. but adding fresh water, dilutes the concentrations-so the larger the water change, the greater the decrease in harmful substances and increase in beneficial minerals from the new water. The rock, fish, inverts etc. in your tank deplete the nutrients in the salt water mixture, so it is imperative to replenish those.
think of a toilet that never gets flushed. You could swish it out, remove solid wastes, but it would be pretty nasty until you add fresh water.
I personally am one of those folks that make regular water changes. Every two weeks, I change at least 3 buckets-approx 15 gal- in my 75 tank, 5 gallons in my 29 and about 10 in my 55. IF I need to do a major clean up in any one tank and am stirring up a lot of 'stuff' from the bottom, rocks etc. then I may do a larger water change. When I switched over from bottled water to my new ro/di unit, I did 20 gallons a week on the 75(not on the others as they are fish only) in an attempt to improve my water quality.
Well, EVERYTHING in the tank has flourished. shrimp all shed, fish eating great, all corals perked up and puffed out-obviously all the fresh water made them feel like the tide was coming in and bringing new water from unspoled areas of the world.
What ever you decide-make it regular habit and keep an eye on the inhabitants of our tank. If they ever look a little 'off' you can increase the amount and frequency of your wate changes.
Good luck-have fun-keep plenty of old towels around!

 

[livephish]

thank both of you for your replies, i will definately be keeping a close eye on the tank, i think i will do 10gal water changes about every two weeks or so. now.... when i buy water, should i buy distilled water or RO water?? fresh or mixed???

 

[arsen_36]

you should use nothing but RO water. other water like tap water has phosphates and other unwanted minerals which could cause algea (algea is ugly). i have a 30g and do 10% or 3g water change every friday. i mix my salt water 24hrs before the water change in a small 5g tub with a heater and a powerhead. and just in case you didn't already know you should also keep(depending on size of your tank) a gallon of RO water for adding top off water. the water in your tank will evaporate but the salt will remain in the tank. if you don't add fresh RO water every day or so your salinity levels will rocket. i use about a gallon a day or maybe less. i'm still learning a bunch too so corect me if im wrong. hope i helped a lil bit :happyfish

 

[livephish]

well i know not to use spring water because of the minerals and elements in the water, but what is the difference between distilled water and RO water. is there a difference????? i know what reverse osmosis is but i do not know the difference between distilled and RO. and yes i do keep water but it is distilled. it says "pure steam distilled water" then it says processed by steam distillation, micron filtration, ozonation, and ultraviolet light. now..... what the heck does all that mean??????

 

[murph]

Small frequent changes. 10 percent weekly or better yet two changes a week of 5 percent. Believe it or not this make the chore seem much easier and results in less upset of the system.
My fish are so use to this schedule they don't even take notice of when its going on with some fish mistaking the process for feeding time.

 

[livephish]

so no one knows the difference between RO and Distilled water????? does anybody have suggestions for vitamins to mix with the food???

 

[dogstar]

Easy discription is, Distilled water is made by evaperation/condisation/steam gathering on a pot lid and dripping into a collector. Its quality depends on equipment ect. used and care. If done right it is pure H2O
RO is filtered water, same thing with quality and equipment, should be close to pure but still some minerals. RO/DI is even purer but not pure, but as good as it gets without going to distilled.
Some people feel distilled is dangerous because it draws elements out of the body, know as hungry water. IMO, it is with fresh water tanks or drinking applications but OK with makeing saltwater because your adding elements to it from the salt mix.
Main issue is that distilled normally cost more to buy than RO but cheaper in the long run to buy you own RO/DI filter if you will useing amounts that make it cost effective.

 

[livephish]

thanks for the reply, thats helpful information. the reason why i started this thread is because i did a 10gal. water change last night. my ammonia was 0, nitrite was 0, but my nitrate level were through the roof. they were at 25mg/l. this morning when i checked the level they were pretty much the same. AAAAHHHH , anyway i am thinking about removing two of the four bio-wheels and maybe picking up a bag of nitrate sponge. i have carried out about three water changes in the past week and a half, and the nitrate levels seem to stay constant. am i doing something wrong here?????
this is what i have:
55gal tank
15lbs LS
40lbs regular sand
35lbs of LR(i am adding more soon)
sea-clone protein skimmer
2 emperior 400 bio wheels( 4 wheels)
aqua clear 70
conditions:
salinity 1.022
pH 8.3
temp 82 degrees
fish:
1 porqupine puffer
1 bursa trigger
1 snowflake eel
2 damsels
i use distilled water to do the water changes, i also add stablizer, pH buffer, add a couple drops of prime when i do the water changes
Any suggestions???????

 

[cabin7882]

I think 82 degrees may be too hot ry to keep it at 75-77 I think I may be wrong. Also I had an emperor bio wheel to start with and then later learned it is more for a fresh water tank because it takes out the good bacteria or something like that?

 

[livephish]

HELP, HELP, HELP........
ok so i did another water change, the 2nd in three days, again i did a 10gal. change on a 55gal. tank. before the nitrate levels were .25mg/l. after the water change still .25mg/l, I MUST BE DOING SOMETHING WRONG!!!! i am no scientist by any means, but it would seem, if i do a 10gal. change on a 55gal tank..... um...... thats 18%. i am removing 18% of the water and diluating the water by 18%. it seems pretty logical to assume that i am also diluating the concentration of nitrates by 18%. should i do another water change??? should i do bigger water changes????

 

[moby]

Hey livephish,
Just a suggestion. Maybe the test kit is bad. It is possible. I've seen it many times.

Moby

 

[livephish]

i did not even think about that!! suppose it isn't though, any suggestion?????

 

[moby]

I would eliminate the possibility of a bad test kit first. You could take a sample of your water to a LFS you trust and have them test it.
If the kit you have is good then, my next question is what is sort of readout does the kit provide. Is it a simple color match chart?
Tough to get a very accurate comparison using these some times.
Try another water change, it could be possible the nitrates are so far off the chart that the water change is not diluting the trates enough to see a difference.
Moby

 

[livephish]

thanks moby, so this afternoon i took a sample with me to the LFS and my test kit was reading correctly. so i loaded up with 20gals. of premade water. got home, siphoned out 20gals., added 20gals, went back got another 20gal. from the fish store and 5 more lbs. of LR, siphoned 20gal. and just finished adding it, if this doesn't work, i will have exhausted all options :notsure: :notsure: :notsure:

 

[gmbrown234]

I use poland spring water for my tank... is that bad? I read above that it isn't good to use spring water?

 

[livephish]

the deal with spring water is.... spring water has minerals and elements that salt water fish are not acclimated too. there are also traces of metals in spring water. RO water or as in my case distilled water is mineral depraved water, water at its most basic form. since the fish/ reef systems we keep become dirty we change out the water with mineral-free RO water so the when it does become polluted, you can rest assured the water being put back in is not. as to whether or not spring water is bad for the fish, i guess only a expert can answer that......

 

[moby]

the deal with spring water is.... spring water has minerals and elements that salt water fish are not acclimated too. there are also traces of metals in spring water. RO water or as in my case distilled water is mineral depraved water, water at its most basic form. since the fish/ reef systems we keep become dirty we change out the water with mineral-free RO water so the when it does become polluted, you can rest assured the water being put back in is not. as to whether or not spring water is bad for the fish, i guess only a expert can answer that......
Good answer, well said.

Moby