Ban Santa and the Easter bunny!!

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Tizzo
So then, from a Cristian religion perspective...Why DO we put up and decorate pine trees?? Sincerely I am asking, not to start a debate about it...
I read somewhere that the evergreen trees were used to teach pagans about the Trinity. The three corners of the tree represested different aspects.....Father, Son, and Holy Spirit....all being of the same entity but different. They were originally hung upside down from the rafters (not easy these days).

 

[tizzo]

That would be neat. That would also get my hubby to relax about my sister in law wanting an upsidedowntree.

 

[thomas712]

Originally Posted by Tizzo
So then, from a Cristian religion perspective...Why DO we put up and decorate pine trees?? Sincerely I am asking, not to start a debate about it...
They just showed the history of the christmas tree or something like that on the History channel last week. I found the article and will attach the link if you like.
http://www.historychannel.com/exhibi...mas/trees.html

 

[farmboy]

Originally Posted by socal57che
I read somewhere that the evergreen trees were used to teach pagans about the Trinity. The three corners of the tree represested different aspects.....Father, Son, and Holy Spirit....all being of the same entity but different. They were originally hung upside down from the rafters (not easy these days).
I think that was St. Patrick using a shamrock.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by Farmboy
I think that was St. Patrick using a shamrock.
Same idea, like the sun (Sun=Father, Warmth=Holy Spirit, Light=Christ) but began in Germany. The priests/ministers used things that people saw every day to teach them about Christ...like the parables of Jesus Himself. Simple folk terms. I wish I could remember where I read it. It was more detailed than the History Channel link, but Thomas seems to be a cornicopia of knowledge so maybe he could dig up more info on it. (hint,hint)

 

[thomas712]

What am I? The SWF librarian?

The origin of the first Christmas tree dates back to the Middle Ages in Western Germany. The people during this time period participated in and watched dramatic plays called miracle and mystery plays. These plays were performed to teach the common people about religious truths that were contained in the bible. There were no printed books available, and pictures were scarce during this period of time. "As laymen joined with the clergy, the individual plays were arranged in a lengthy series or cycle throughout the church year" (Foley, pg. 39). In this way, peasants were taught about the Old and New Testaments of the bible.
During the Christmas season, the Paradise play was presented. This play depicted Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. On stage was an evergreen tree, covered in apples, which showed Adam and Eve's sin and later banishment from the garden. The tree received particular attention because it was the only prop on the stage. This symbol remained firmly planted in the minds of spectators and actors. Later, after the plays "ceased to be performed in Germany" ( Foley, pg. 41), people began putting their own trees in their homes.
This early Paradise tree had a lot of value to the Germans. By having the tree in their home they were able to teach their children the story of Adam and Eve. They taught this story through symbols. The evergreen tree symbolized immortality because it stays green all year. The apples on the Paradise tree symbolized Adam's sin. Round wafers and cookies were also added as decorations. They represented the fruits of redemption.
Candles were also important symbols to the Germans. The candle was their main source of light, and it represented Christ being the Light of the World. The candles were placed on a wooden pyramid structure with shelves called the lightstock or Christmas pyramid. This pyramid stood next to the Paradise tree. This candle holder was also decorated with tinsel, paper or cloth roses, and a star was usually placed on top.
After some years the two were combined. The Christmas tree we know today is a combination of the Paradise tree and the Christmas pyramid.
From Germany, the idea of a Christmas tree spread. As Germans left the Rhineland to settle in other places, they took their proud custom with them. In England, German settlers had brought the idea of a Christmas tree over. It wasn't until several decades later that it was formally introduced by Prince Albert, consort to Queen Victoria, a German.
At first the Christmas tree was found only in the homes of the upper-class English. The idea soon gained in popularity and became an English sensation. It became a Victorian symbol "laden with ornaments and surrounded with gifts" (Foley, pg. 65).
Hessian (German) mercenaries fighting for the British during the Revolutionary War, most likely introduced the concept of a Christmas tree to America. Tradition says that these soldiers set up Christmas trees for the colonial children. They did this so they would be able to cherish their homeland customs, since some of them had been away from home for three Christmases. No documentary evidence has been found to support this tradition, however, only stories.
Documented evidence of the Christmas tree began showing up in the early 1800's and continued to grow steadily. Most of the information is from the personal accounts of German settlers. The earliest illustration of a Christmas tree in America was from a book entitled The Stranger's Gift by Herman Bodum, printed in 1836. The Christmas tree began to spread rapidly throughout America. By the year 1850, the Christmas tree had become the fashionable thing for the holiday season.
Today most Christians celebrating Christmas have a Christmas tree in their home during the holiday season. They have their own special traditions involving the cutting and decorating of the tree. Many people view the Christmas tree as the most glorious and best-loved symbol of the Christmas season.
References.
Bodum, Herman (1836). The Stranger's Gift. Boston.
Foley, Daniel J. (1960). The Christmas Tree. Philadelphia: Chilton Company.
Pauli, Hertha (1944). The Story of the Christmas Tree. Boston: Houghton Mifflin.

 

[thomas712]

Other Holiday Factoids:
The Date of Christmas
The idea to celebrate Christmas on December 25 originated in the 4th century. The Catholic Church wanted to eclipse the festivities of a rival pagan religion that threatened Christianity's existence. The Romans celebrated the birthday of their sun god, Mithras during this time of year. Although it was not popular, or even proper, to celebrate people's birthdays in those times, church leaders decided that in order to compete with the pagan celebration they would themselves order a festival in celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. Although the actual season of Jesus' birth is thought to be in the spring, the date of December 25 was chosen as the official birthday celebration as Christ's Mass so that it would compete head on with the rival pagan celebration. Christmas was slow to catch on in America. The early colonists considered it a pagan ritual. The celebration of Christmas was even banned by law in Massachusetts in colonial days.
Mistletoe and Holly
Two hundred years before the birth of Christ, the Druids used mistletoe to celebrate the coming of winter. They would gather this evergreen plant that is parasitic upon other trees and used it to decorate their homes. They believed the plant had special healing powers for everything from female infertility to poison ingestion. Scandinavians also thought of mistletoe as a plant of peace and harmony. They associated mistletoe with their goddess of love, Frigga. The custom of kissing under the mistletoe probably derived from this belief. The early church banned the use of mistletoe in Christmas celebrations because of its pagan origins. Instead, church fathers suggested the use of holly as an appropriate substitute for Christmas greenery.
Poinsettias
Poinsettias are native to Mexico. They were named after America's first ambassador to Mexico, Joel Poinsett. He brought the plants to America in 1828. The Mexicans in the eighteenth century thought the plants were symbolic of the Star of Bethlehem. Thus the Poinsettia became associated with the Christmas season. The actual flower of the poinsettia is small and yellow. But surrounding the flower are large, bright red leaves, often mistaken for petals.

 

[thomas712]

The Christmas Tree
The Christmas Tree originated in Germany in the 16th century. It was common for the Germanic people to decorate fir trees, both inside and out, with roses, apples, and colored paper. It is believed that Martin Luther, the Protestant reformer, was the first to light a Christmas tree with candles. While coming home one dark winter's night near Christmas, he was struck with the beauty of the starlight shining through the branches of a small fir tree outside his home. He duplicated the starlight by using candles attached to the branches of his indoor Christmas tree. The Christmas tree was not widely used in Britain until the 19th century. It was brought to America by the Pennsylvania Germans in the 1820's.
Xmas
This abbreviation for Christmas is of Greek origin. The word for Christ in Greek is Xristos. During the 16th century, Europeans began using the first initial of Christ's name, "X" in place of the word Christ in Christmas as a shorthand form of the word. Although the early Christians understood that X stood for Christ's name, later Christians who did not understand the Greek language mistook "Xmas" as a sign of disrespect.
The Candy Cane
Candy canes have been around for centuries, but it wasn't until around 1900 that they were decorated with red stripes and bent into the shape of a cane. They were sometimes handed out during church services to keep the children quiet. One story (almost certainly false) that is often told about the origin of the candy cane is as follows:
In the late 1800's a candy maker in Indiana wanted to express the meaning of Christmas through a symbol made of candy. He came up with the idea of bending one of his white candy sticks into the shape of a Candy Cane. He incorporated several symbols of Christ's love and sacrifice through the Candy Cane. First, he used a plain white peppermint stick. The color white symbolizes the purity and sinless nature of Jesus. Next, he added three small stripes to symbolize the pain inflicted upon Jesus before His death on the cross. There are three of them to represent the Holy Trinity. He added a bold stripe to represent the blood Jesus shed for mankind. When looked at with the crook on top, it looks like a shepherd's staff because Jesus is the shepherd of man. If you turn it upside down, it becomes the letter J symbolizing the first letter in Jesus' name. The candy maker made these candy canes for Christmas, so everyone would remember what Christmas is all about.
Santa Claus
The original Santa Claus, St. Nicholas, was born in Turkey in the 4th century. He was very pious from an early age, devoting his life to Christianity. He became widely known for his generosity for the poor. But the Romans held him in contempt. He was imprisoned and tortured. But when Constantine became emperor of Rome, he allowed Nicholas to go free. Constantine became a Christian and convened the Council of Nicaea in 325. Nicholas was a delegate to the council. He is especially noted for his love of children and for his generosity. He is the patron saint of sailors, Sicily, Greece, and Russia. He is also, of course, the patron saint of children. The Dutch kept the legend of St. Nicholas alive. In 16th century Holland, Dutch children would place their wooden shoes by the hearth in hopes that they would be filled with a treat. The Dutch spelled St. Nicholas as Sint Nikolaas, which became corrupted to Sinterklaas, and finally, in Anglican, to Santa Claus. In 1822, Clement C. Moore composed his famous poem, "A Visit from St. Nick," which was later published as "The Night Before Christmas." Moore is credited with creating the modern image of Santa Claus as a jolly fat man in a red suit.

 

[my way]

Thomas you should go on Jeapardy, you would clean up!

 

[pontius]

before reading Thomas' last post, I was going to post that Santa Claus was indeed inspired by a religious figure, so he shouldn't be considered "just some cartoon character".
as far as the easter bunny, the late comedian Bill Hicks could provide some insight into that character.
I'd say it's pretty ignorant to say that Jesus is a fictional character. the Romans would've had no reason to keep any records of him.....Jesus was one of thousands crucified by the Romans for being "Jewish troublemakers". and there were MANY others besides Jesus that were claimed to be the messiah (and crucified for it), but I believe Jesus was the one who had most of the following and writings about him. the biggest piece of evidence for me is his brother James, who IS a historically known person and was a leader of the Jewish church.

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by socal57che
Same idea, like the sun (Sun=Father, Warmth=Holy Spirit, Light=Christ) but began in Germany. The priests/ministers used things that people saw every day to teach them about Christ...like the parables of Jesus Himself. Simple folk terms. I wish I could remember where I read it. It was more detailed than the History Channel link, but Thomas seems to be a cornicopia of knowledge so maybe he could dig up more info on it. (hint,hint)
I told you Thomas would know. He's probably forgotten more than I'll ever know! ***)

 

[thomas712]

This is how it happened...I just finished the household chores for the night and was preparing to go to bed, when I heard a noise in the front of the house. I opened the door to the front room and to my surprise, Santa himself stepped out from behind the Christmas tree.
He placed his finger over his mouth so I would not cry out. "What are you doing?" I started to ask. The words choked up in my throat, and I saw he had tears in his eyes. His usual jolly manner was gone. Gone was the eager, boisterous soul we all know.
He then answered me with a simple statement.
"TEACH THE CHILDREN!"
I was puzzled; what did he mean? He anticipated my question, and with one quick movement brought forth a miniature toy bag from behind the tree. As I stood bewildered, Santa said,
"Teach the children! Teach them the old meaning of Christmas. The meaning that now-a-days Christmas has forgotten."
Santa then reached in his bag and pulled out a FIR TREE and placed it before the mantle.
"Teach the children that the pure green color of the stately fir tree remains green all year round, depicting the everlasting hope of mankind, all the needles point heavenward, making it a symbol of man's thoughts turning toward heaven."
He again reached into his bag and pulled out a brilliant STAR.
"Teach the children that the star was the heavenly sign of promises long ago. God promised a Savior for the world, and the star was the sign of fulfillment of His promise."
He then reached into his bag and pulled out a CANDLE.
"Teach the children that the candle symbolizes that Christ is the light of the world, and when we see this great light we are reminded of He who displaces the darkness."
Once again he reached into his bag and removed a WREATH and placed it on the tree.
"Teach the children that the wreath symbolizes the real nature of love. Real love never ceases. Love is one continuous round of affection."
He then pulled from his bag an ornament of himself.
"Teach the children that I, Santa Clause symbolize the generosity and good will we feel during the month of December."
He then brought out a HOLLY LEAF.
"Teach the children that the holly plant represents immortality. It represents the crown of thorns worn by our Savior. The red holly represents the blood shed by Him."
Next he pulled from his bag a GIFT and said,
"Teach the children that God so loved the world that HE gave HIS begotten SON..." "Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift.
"Teach the children that the wise men bowed before the Holy BABE and presented HIM with gold, frankincense and myrrh. We should always give gifts in the same spirit of the wise men."
Santa then reached in his bag and pulled out a CANDY CANE and hung it on the tree.
"Teach the children that the candy cane represents the shepherds' crook. The crook on the staff helps to bring back strayed sheep to the flock. The candy cane is the symbol that we are our brother's keeper."
He reached in again and pulled out an ANGEL.
"Teach the children that it was the angels that heralded in the glorious news of the Savior's birth. The angels sang 'Glory to God in the highest, on earth peace and good will toward men."
Suddenly I heard a soft twinkling sound, and from his bag he pulled out a BELL.
"Teach the children that as the lost sheep are found by the sound of the bell, it should ring mankind to the fold. The bell symbolizes guidance and return."
Santa looked back and was pleased. He looked back at me and I saw that the twinkle was back in his eyes. He said,
"Remember, teach the children the true meaning of Christmas and do not put me in the center, for I am but a humble servant of the One that is, and I bow down to worship HIM, our LORD, our GOD."