battle of the LFS

[ivycharlaine]

So I have these 2 LFStores that I go to in my area. One of them is ultra huge with 100s of tanks and everytime I bought a fish from them it died. So I started going to this smaller one that is family owned and has maybe 30 tanks and I have never had any fish die from them. So the little LFS told me that the big LFS fed their fish black worms and it is bad for the fish. What the heck is up with this? I don't even know what black worms are.

 

[lil.guppy]

wow never heard of those either. I think the smaller LFS make more of a relationship with the community rather then just in it for the money. They also dont have as many tanks so they can devote more time to caring for them.
Did you get your money back or credit for that fish?

 

[gratefulhippie]

Well since the blackworms come from muddy river banks, that are usually polluted, I'd never feed them to anything in a reef tank! The reason the store probably uses them is they arnt supposed to break down and decay. I'm sure they think they can get by not changing the water, but as you said the fish dont seem to stand too long.

 

[usirchchris]

Hmm, I have heard of blood worms, but not black worms. I would say support the small business, but I am wary of any business that speaks badly of another...Go to the "big" store and ask what they feed, however, even if they do feed "black worms" I doubt this would be the cause of the fish dying...they would not have been exposed long enough to reap the ill effects. JMHO

 

[ivycharlaine]

Originally Posted by usirchchris
http:///forum/post/3117884
Hmm, I have heard of blood worms, but not black worms. I would say support the small business, but I am wary of any business that speaks badly of another...Go to the "big" store and ask what they feed, however, even if they do feed "black worms" I doubt this would be the cause of the fish dying...they would not have been exposed long enough to reap the ill effects. JMHO
Well he wasn't talking badly about them, I asked him if he knew anything about how the big store cared for their fish and i told him how mine kept dying from there. And then he told me about the black worms, but he wasn't pushing me to stop going there or anything. He was real nice and respectful to be honest.

 

[usirchchris]

Originally Posted by ivycharlaine
http:///forum/post/3118112
Well he wasn't talking badly about them, I asked him if he knew anything about how the big store cared for their fish and i told him how mine kept dying from there. And then he told me about the black worms, but he wasn't pushing me to stop going there or anything. He was real nice and respectful to be honest.
Gotcha

 

[lion_crazz]

Blackworms will not kill fish. Many stores sell them and use them to feed their fish. While they are not high in nutrition, they would not kill fish on the short term.
You are losing fish from the larger store for other reasons. For example, your salinity may be much different from theirs. They may keep a lot of copper in the water.
The question is, how fast do you lose fish from the larger store?

 

[cranberry]

We gave black worms intermittently for years. These fish lived to be about 8 years a piece... leopard wrasse, mandarin, butterfly etc etc. Black worms will not kill your fish and it can be worked into a successful diet as mine showed.

 

[jackri]

I just read an article about a 40 year old reef tank and the first time I read where someone feeds black worms. They are high in oils... which the guy contends is a very important part of a wild fish's diet as up to 25% of their weight can be in oils and captive fish can be lacking in this. Now saying that -- he clearly states this is supplemental feeding only as they are not highly nutritious on their own.
In his own experience (he used baby mackeral I believe available at an asian store) he contributed the health and spawning rates of his fish to high levels of oils (in the baby mackeral like black worms) and longevity -- 15yrs + on some fish.

 

[sepulatian]

I used to feed blackworms to my morymids at my store. Never an issue. Something else has gone on. How does your small LFS know what they feed? I have a small LFS that I go to as well. It is a mom and pop shop. They know some stuff but on other things they have no clue. I asked if I could order some Zoecon from them. They have the same distibutor that I had. I know they can get it. They tried talking me out of it. They swore that no saltwater fish will eat anything that you add vitamins to. These are the same people that sold me a Scopas tang, swearing up and down that it was an angel. I tried telling them and they told me, " I don't know why people keep telling me that this is a tang!" Um because it is... Bottom line is that they most certainly can be wrong about advice.

 

[aquaknight]

The other thing to add to Sep's post, why is the mom and pop shop the only one that needs your business? Just because the other's large, has 100's of tanks, etc, you shouldn't shop there? Unless their a retail chain, I'm sure there are an owner or two, just like the little one.
If I had to pick to just visit one, I'd pick the big one every time. The little shop can only support so much, and I love to window shop and go into a store, and them actually have something I want to buy, instead of being told they can order it, and it never show

. I understand the relationship of talking to someone seemingly 'in-the-know' vs. the 'gum-snapper' you might get at the large shop, but as pointed out, not everyone is perfect and basing your decisions on only one opinion, is never the why to go.
As far as the fish dying, why? I feel this is probably the biggest part of the hobby. Even if you lose a fish/coral, there's something you can take away. Why specifically did the fish die? Very, very things die out of the blue, and 99% of fish deaths can be related to something either visible, malnourishment, disease, or by testing, salinity's way different etc.

 

[jackri]

Simply amazing isn't it?
Our local reef club actually goes to one of the LFS and cleans it up and helps him out a lot. The guy doesn't have any good help and can't do it all himself. But on the plus side he will buy corals from club members for what he pays the distributor. He's definately not a source of info either but at least open minded to assistance.

 

[u mike]

what part of jersey are you living ? I am in south jersey where I can go to 2 lfs just wondering .

 

[ivycharlaine]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3118818
The other thing to add to Sep's post, why is the mom and pop shop the only one that needs your business? Just because the other's large, has 100's of tanks, etc, you shouldn't shop there? Unless their a retail chain, I'm sure there are an owner or two, just like the little one.
If I had to pick to just visit one, I'd pick the big one every time. The little shop can only support so much, and I love to window shop and go into a store, and them actually have something I want to buy, instead of being told they can order it, and it never show

. I understand the relationship of talking to someone seemingly 'in-the-know' vs. the 'gum-snapper' you might get at the large shop, but as pointed out, not everyone is perfect and basing your decisions on only one opinion, is never the why to go.
As far as the fish dying, why? I feel this is probably the biggest part of the hobby. Even if you lose a fish/coral, there's something you can take away. Why specifically did the fish die? Very, very things die out of the blue, and 99% of fish deaths can be related to something either visible, malnourishment, disease, or by testing, salinity's way different etc.
The large and the small LFS actually have the same distributor so that's how he knew what they fed. And actually I have bought about 5 fish from the large one (at different times this past year) and all of them have died within a week or two. So I don't know what the deal is.

 

[ivycharlaine]

Originally Posted by u mike
http:///forum/post/3119086
what part of jersey are you living ? I am in south jersey where I can go to 2 lfs just wondering .
Hey I'm in South Jersey too

I go to the LFS in Williamstown (small one) and the LFS in Clementon (big one) and occasionally I go to the one in Pennsauken (medium sized one) Which ones are you talking about?

 

[u mike]

Originally Posted by ivycharlaine
http:///forum/post/3119209
Hey I'm in South Jersey too

I go to the LFS in Williamstown (small one) and the LFS in Clementon (big one) and occasionally I go to the one in Pennsauken (medium sized one) Which ones are you talking about?
yes i use both also never been to pennsauken.

 

[deejeff442]

the only thing i go to a lfs for is salt and vitimines.
i was at a smaller lfs last week and looked like every fish in there either had ich or velvet.
the one that made me sick was a idol fish with velvet all over him.
my other big lfs has some rare fish all his fish look great but cost double for what i can get elsewhere.
example he has a 4 inch achilles for $499 i bought my 8 inch achilles for $220.
i always ask questions when i visit these stores and 75% of the time i get wrong answers.
amazing that these stores stay in business not knowing how to care for these fish.
these forums are really the best way to get help and unbiased info.

 

[ophiura]

The answer given by the small LFS about the worms is pretty marginal at best. So that tells me the information they give out could be limited as well, so be wary.
There are a lot of things that go into this. For a start, I would be interested in the type of fish you bought from each store (having damsels survive from one store, and tangs die from another...is a consideration). I would be interested in specifics of your tank in terms of size and age and parameters. The parameters of the stores tank...acclimation...etc. How the fish died, whether several at a time or individually.
Basically there is too much unknown, but I am quite certain it is not the blackworms.
The size of the store and number of tanks is not, IMO, a good factor necessarily in choosing a store. I've seen some small shops that look horrendous, and big one's too. And often it changes over the course of the year...things happen. If our tanks go through problem periods you can imagine what can go wrong at an LFS.
So I guess the question is...are you interested in "investigating" more what may have happened or was it a question on the worms? If the worms, it is not what is killing the fish (and it doesn't seem it is clear that is what they are even feeding them).