Beginner needing advice

[saltywaters]

First off, my fiance and I are doing salt water for the first time. We have the opportunity to pick up a 90 gallon tank with pretty much everything I think we need, but I have a couple concerns. When we went to look at it I asked him when he had checked his water last. He told me he's never checked it. There are a few fish and a couple anemones, so is it safe to assume the water is ok? Also, the tank has what looks like a purple tint on the glass. Is that something I can easily scrape off before I fill the tank back up if we decide to buy it? And will scraping that tint hurt the existing environment?
Here is his ad for the tank
Like I said already, we are beginners, let me know what you think of the setup he is selling.
The first tank is a 90 gallon overflow with refugium has orbit extreme light about 2 1/2 years old the tank I bought on here don't remember who from. It will come with the stand. Right now it has a maroon clown, sailfin tang, Tomato clown, and dragon wrasse. Some snails and hermits a couple small mushrooms and two anenomes. The tank has an ocean runner pump probably about 130lbs or more of live rock and sand. Sand is mostly a black sand hard to find and a bit expensive. two power heads, heater light for refugium. I would like $450 for the whole thing
Thanks in advance-

 

[jstdv8]

Sounds like a good deal. I bought my 90 for 500 with 45 lbs of live rock, 60 lbs of live sand, skimmer and a sump/refugium, heater and 2 #2 koralia powerheads.
You will also want to ask him if he has an RO/DI water purifier that goes with it and any testing supplies.
If he doesnt have either of these then go get your own first thing.
Ro/DI will save you alot of hassle and money when you can make your own pure water. Don't use tap water, even with the stuffthey ahve now to help it out, just use the RO/DI (reverse osmosis)
and for testing kits the very least you will nead is a kit with ammonia, nitirite and nitrate testers in it.
If its been up and running for a while and hes keeping anemones and fish you can ASSUME that the water is ok, the fact that he's never tested it is a serious concernt, but I guess if you don't see any nasty things growing in there like green hair algae, majano, aiptaisa and all the livestock looks good yo should be ok.
The purple stuff will scrape off with a little elbow grease, its coraline algae. hopefully it is also covering the rocks too. the more the merrier on that stuff.
When you get the tank you want to keep all of the established stuff in the same condition and get it to your home and get it set up without much heat loss and keeping everything wet.
What I did with pretty good success was 3 35 gallon rubbermaid totes. took all of his water and put them in the totes, put the fish in a tote with nothing but water in it, put the Live rock in the other two, make sure they are covered completey or the part that is sticking out may die off and give you an ammonia spike. I left the sand in the tank, and while it was easier this way when you do it I would reccomend taking the sand out and putting it in a 5 gallon bucket or something. This must stay wet too.
When you add the stuff back into the tank put your base rocks down first. I recommend putting egg crate lighting grids down on the base of your tank to help distribute the weight of the live rock (LR). Add about 1/3 tank of water, put the base rocks in on the bottom glass or the egg crate, add the sand. When you add the sand take every precaustion to keep it as unstirred as possible. it will help with the clear up. once you've got all the sand in go ahead and add all the rest of your live rock.
As far as adding the fish you should really wait for most of the sediment to settle out and then do the three tests I descibed above. if your ammonia or nitirites are high keep the fish in thier tote or in a seperate tank of some sort until you can get the water situation taken care of.
Dont forget to aclimate your fish to possible verying temps.
Dont use the water that was in the 5 gallon bucket with the sand in it jsut toss that water out once youve got the sand out of it.
Good luck

 

[saltywaters]

Thanks for the reply.
Just to clarify, the purple "film" is a commercial tint that was applied to the glass. I just wanted to be sure removing it wasn't going to disrupt the current environment. We can tell it's a tint because there are two scratches in it and its peeling at the edges.
Also, I just remembered that he hasn't changed his filters either. Is that typical for a refugium?
Thanks again.

 

[jstdv8]

ohh, lol wrong purple stuff
I dont have a filter on my system so I couldnt tell you.
I do see alot of people that go with filter floss and change it out quite often. So im sure if he's never changed it it will need changing

 

[jstdv8]

also if that light has been on there a while the bulbs will certainly need changing.
The orbit looks like a nice light but its not very powerful. good for fish and low light stuff like the mushrooms hes keeping. If you want to get into differnt corals you will need to upgrade that part of your system

 

[saltywaters]

Yes, we are wanting to run corals, and lots of them. Acutally, we are wanting to run a reef tank with fish. Any suggestions on what lights we should look at getting? Also, how much of his water do I need to keep to keep everything alive and happy? He is about 30 minutes away from me. If I drain the tank, make a couple trips from his house to our house, then bring it home and scrape the tint off, I'm guessing the fish will be out of the tank for 3 hours or so. Should I toss them and the couple little anenomes in one of the tubs we're moving the water in with a pump for some air? Last question I have for now...lol He has two powerheads in the tank, one on each side. I know you want lots of water movement but, can you get too big of powerheads? They seem to be moving a lot of water! The dragon goby would swim up to it, then the powerhead would blow him all the way back across the tank. He said he thought they might have been too big, because they keep blowing his sand around...
Thanks again for all your help-

 

[fretfreak13]

Honestly, a full water change wouldn't hurt much. If you just wanted to make your own water at your house, it should be fine. Most of the beneficial bacteria that is produced during the initial cycle lives on the rocks and only a small bit in the water. That's why the rock is called "live rock", I've never heard of anyone selling "live water". lol Plus it'll help remove any nasties that come up from the sandbed which is obviously going to get stirred up during the move. Unless you plan on replacing the sand, which I think you should personally since after all that time not taking very good care of his tank, there will probably be a lot of ditrius and ammonia causing things in the sand. Stirring it will relese it.
Put all fish, coral, and inverts in a tub with water while this is going on. They should be fine, considering things get shipped overnight and what not the same way. I would personally get the tank home, refilled, and THEN go back and get the animals and start acclimating them right away. Make sure you do a little water test on the display tank before putting everything back in just to make sure everything is good to go. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates, PH, and Salinity would be what I would test for.
What kind of powerheads are they? Is there a brand on them?

 

[saltywaters]

I would rather do a complete water change if everything will be alright with it. I am not sure on the power heads, I didn't see a name on them, but I will ask and see if he knows. On the sand, if replacing it would help prevent problems, I'll just replace it. I am not a fan on the black sand anyways. I have heard different people say different things, is it ok if I mix new salt water with just tap water?
Thanks-

 

[fretfreak13]

Stay away from tap water, it's TERRIBLE for a saltwater tank. Tap contains phosphates, which aid in the growth of problematic algea like hair algea and even cyanobacteria. As well, it's much too easy to get copper leached into tap water which will kill all of your inverts like crabs, snails, shrimp, and even the beneficial bacteria on the rocks. There's other stuff in Tap too that's not good for your tank and will just throw it all out of whack.
Where do you live, anywhere near a big city? Check MACNA.com to see if there's a reef club around your area. Clubs are always willing to help out newbies and often give stuff away, or sell for very cheap. See if anyone has an RO unit for sale, or could give you RO water for free/very cheap. Also, check craigs list.
Invest in a RO/DI unit, you'll tank yourself later. In my 30 gallon alone, I have about 5 gallons evaporate every week. I find myself running to the pet store carrying big jugs of water to get RO water, and if the LFS isn't open, I'm running to Gaint Eagle to buy DISTILLED water. It's not as good as RO water, which is absolute pure water, but it's about as close as you can get. As a result, I have about 200 gallon jugs littering my basement floor from buying distilled and not a big enough recycling bin. I'm hoping to get a RO unit from my dad for my brithday.

 

[saltywaters]

We live in Wichita, Kansas. I just got off the phone with a local petshop, and they sell RO water for 39 cents a gallon. So it should only cost me $50 or less to fill up the tank plus a 50 gallon overflow. I am very nervous to buy something that I think may already have some issues, but it seems like a very good price. We have not completly decided to go with this tank, but if we do, I'll have lots more questions. Thanks-

 

[bulldog123]

According to what I have read replace the sand. Save a few cups from the upper layer and throw the rest out.

 

[fretfreak13]

Right. The upper layer of sand that is already being used will have the majority of the bacteria you need on it. Get a few cups of that, and then get the rest new. Put the new sand in (after rinsing it of course) and then put the couple cups of other sand on top. It'll seed the rest of the sand, eventually helping it become "live sand".

 

[jstdv8]

Both times i moved my tank I kept ALL of the water. let it settle down for a couple days and then started with 25% water change.
That water is going to cost you 50 bucks at the store and you could buy your own RO/DI unit for about 100.00
If the fish is going to be out of the tank for 3 hours thats fine, just remember to put a heater in the tub with them, and make sure it doesnt touch the plastic sides.
For lighting if you want to keep lots of corals and not be limited you could go with metal halides, for a bit less money and less heat you can run T5's HO they arent as powerfull so you may be limited on a few corals that need very high lighting or you will have to at least keep them at the top of the tank.
What kind of powerheads are they?

 

[saltywaters]

All he told me on the powerheads is that they are Seio brand. The lighting is a Current Orbit 260W. I've been checking on what is best for positioning for powerheads, and have been getting mixed reviews. Should I position the powerheads on opposite walls facing opposite walls? Or should they both be facing forward? I spent about 2 hours at a local store and got some ideas on the sand. The guy was saying to ditch the sand and just start fresh, but he may have just been trying to make a sale. I like the idea of keeping the water - both from the financial side and due to it being easier. I'm concerned doing a large water change is going to eliminate any chance of survival for the current fish, but I really don't know the condition of the current water. I'm going to try and see if he will give me a water sample.

 

[jstdv8]

reguardless of what the condition of the existing water is thats the condition that the fish are now used to and so if you are going to do a water change you need to test the existing water first and try and get as close to those parameters as possible wile fixing what needs fixing slowly. If you were to just mix up new water with perfect parameters and the old water was really bad in one or two departments then you would likley kill the fish or at the very least put them into shock and possibly cause them to get sick.
25% water changes will fix just about any problems with the water if you keep up on the regular. And once you get the quality good then you can go to 10% every week or two and have everything good to go.

 

[fretfreak13]

I dissagree about the full water change. If acclimated right to the new water correctly (slow drip acclimation for a number of hours), the livestock should be fine. I'm not saying it must be done, eveything with this tank is your own preference, but if this tank hasn't been maintained for a long time, you have no idea what kind of junk is sitting on the rocks or will be stirred into the water column. I, personally, would get all new water. There are people on this site who can say that doing a 100% water change is ok (Cranberry for sure), I personally have never done it because I've never had the need. Never dealt with any type of illness, bad water, a move, or..well anything. Hope I didn't just j ynx myself.
I would personally position one powerhead on the right wall, pointing twords the left wall and beind the rocks so it'll stir up anything that falls behind there back into the water for filtration. The other put on the left wall, infront of the rocks, facing the right wall.
Everything else Jst is saying is definetly spot on, I just wanted to put my two cents in that lol. +1000 =)

 

[oceandude]

Can you have your water parameters tested? That would be a great place to begin. Then more info behooving ya'll could easily be advised if we knew what they are. Thanks.
1. Water tests
2. Rinse sand very good. Why throw it out? Unless you just don't want or like the existing sand.
3. Partial water change, maybe up to 50%. Why do 100% change? (Especially if all else is OK.) If you do 100%, you are starting new and all that goes with a new system. WHY??? If the water were that toxic, your critters, and the proverbial canary in the mine, (your anemone) would probably not exist.

 

[saltywaters]

We went back today to take measurements, get a water sample, and take some pictures. The water tested great - no issues according to the LFS. I really want your opinion of the refugium. Take a look at the pics ad let me know what you think. We're going to end up keeping a majority of the water and little of the sand. It's black sand, but we prefer the lighter. Also there is a picture of the powerhead. Brand: Seio -Model: ??? There are two in the tank now. We're planning on cleaning the tank up prior to setting it back up. And also, do you see any growth in the tank that looks concerning?

 

[jstdv8]

I didnt see a skimmer in any of the pics. You don't need one, but most people run a skimmer. the skimmer would go in the sump/refugium
hard to tell from those pics but everything looks ok.
was the sand in the middle built up like that on purpose or is that the powerhead doing that?

 

[maeistero]

well well well....
I'm in lawrence over here and we do have some help for you in wichita. salt - city dot org. KCRA is onto you now lol
save the black sand!!!! there's a local reefer that's looking for a lot of it and he'll probably trade you something if you don't like it. you're going to have spikes whether you use it or replace it.
*are you sure it's black sand? if it's regular sand with black algae/mold growth throughout then yessir trashcan.
your lfs should sell saltwater in addition to just ro, ask about it. it doesn't matter if you save the water or not. i would go all new because your trace elements are probably depleted. Don't worry about detrius being stirred up by the sand or lr, unavoidable and not a reason to toss any sand. put a hang on back filter on for awhile until the water's clear then the rest will be taken care of in your cycle.
i'd have someone in town just hold your fish for a month or so while you re-cycle the tank at your house. we do that all the time with moves. better yet just sell them and get what you want later.
your powerheads are fine if they're working. a little big and unsightly, but if they work use them for now. place them anywhere and point them anywhere as long as you eliminate any dead flow spots in the tank. that'll be easy to see early on with all the detrius floating around.
the lighting will be fine for a few months until the tank is stable by which time you'll know exactly what bulb you need. ...or if you need additional.
be curious about your skimmer, there are lots of junkers out there. i'd buy a used one off someone in the club so you can see it in action beforehand.
i can't believe the guy never tested, sounds like he didn't have the tank long, when it started to die down he bailed. see that a lot.
pm me with any other questions, you have an ENORMOUS amount of resources very close by.