Beth-hypo question

[flamehawk]

The thread on this site suggest leaving fish in hypo for 3 weeks after all signs are gone and then raising salinity back slowly over 1 week. I have read that the ich actually does not die but rather lies dormant on the bottom of the Q tank and can actually come back after the water gets back to salinity norm. Is this accurate? If so, why would we suggest this method? wouldn't the alternative be to move fish to another clean tank or vacuum bottom of Q tank as thoroughly as possible? Thanks.

 

[mavgi]

first it's better to leave the fish in hypo 6 weeks
when you want to get the salinity back you need make more water change in the qt.
and don't forget to do it slow it's very important because for the fish it's more hard to increase the sailnity then to take it down
you need to leave your main tank without fish at least 30 days and then the live cycle of parasites will died.
don't forget to change water in your main tank about 30%.
this option will give you more chance that the parasites will not back.

 

[flamehawk]

Thx for response. Are you saying that it s/b 6 weeks after symptoms are gone Vs 3 weeks stated on this site? Also the all ecompasing question of whether the ich actually dies or just lies dormant on the bottom only to live again once salinity is raised still needs to be answered. Thx again....

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by flamehawk
Thx for response. Are you saying that it s/b 6 weeks after symptoms are gone Vs 3 weeks stated on this site? Also the all ecompasing question of whether the ich actually dies or just lies dormant on the bottom only to live again once salinity is raised still needs to be answered. Thx again....

well to look at it logically with a few of the facts.
fact 1, invertebrates can not survive in hyposaline conditions
fact 2, ich is an invertebrate
fact 3, ich is a parasite and needs a host to survive, if the host does not have ick where is it surviving under impossible conditions for 6 weeks?
if you look at it logically it would be impossible to have "dormant" ick. on the other hand, if "goes away for a week" well that doesnt mean its gone, it drops off of fish to reproduce during that time i suppose you could suggest it is dormant because it is free floating, and on the bottom of the tank and not on the fish, but guarantee it will show up again if not treated. the other thing to remember is any treatment method out there does not remove the actual ick from any fish, it kills the free floating ick, so thats why any treatment does not work in one day, it has to be killed during the initial stage or during reproduction, because the ick can survive on the host for a little while if it is attached to a host...
just my 2 cents

 

[mavgi]

the parasite live cycle it's 30 days in low sailnity the parasite can't survive and with the treatment they will die.

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by mavgi
the parasite live cycle it's 30 days in low sailnity the parasite can't survive and with the treatment they will die.

easier said....lol I suppose i could have just posted that...

 

[mavgi]

hi
my english is not so good I'm trying to make my messages short.....

 

[diane4]

I have read that the hypo treatment lifecycle is 28 days. Some people say that you need to begin the calendar clock 3 weeks from the date you no longer see any specs on your fish.
Some people say it's 1 month, and yet others said 6 weeks.
I am done with Hypo on my tank and I have 1 (maybe 2) more water changes to complete the process of getting him back up to normal salt levels.
I have a mostly white dogface puffer and seeing ich spots on him is difficult, which is one of the reasons why I did it for 6 weeks.
I looked at it this way. A fish can deal with hypo mode for quite a while, and it is a lot of work to get their salt down to hyposalinity level and it is work to bring them back up. Why rush it. My thought was, keep him there for6 weeks to be sure.
My dogface puffer is doing extreemly well, has been ich free and eating well. I love him dearly and I thank the folks on this site for their help..and being there.
Even though some folks will say hypo beyond 3 weeks (and pets stores will tell you 2 weeks), I suggest keeping them there for 6 weeks. This way you know you will be done with it. Be sure of your salt reading so that you know for sure that you are at hypo level. I used 2 sources of salt meausre at all times just to compare.
Hypo works, when followed exactly as perscribed.
Thats my two cents worth.

 

[flamehawk]

Looking at flame angel right now in hypo. All readings are good including 14ppt via refrac. He's breathing hard and all of the sudden not doing well. He was fine up until today when after 72 hours of lowering salinity, he then started to breath hard and is losing color. He really did not have ich that bad....a couple of spots on his tail and was eating well and other wise doing well with good coloe prioe to hypo. I just don't think that some fish do well w/ hypo.

 

[mavgi]

i think that you need to check your water the regular test like amonia ph nitrite and nitarte
to maybe the reading changed , when you see that the angel fish have problem with breathing hard normaly check your water urgent and look if the paramter not change.
by the way the flame angel he is the hardy one from all the angel fish.

 

[flamehawk]

As stated in my previous post, all readings are good.

 

[carshark]

it is not a stress free scenario. maybe try to reduce lighting, let him rest...my foxface did the same thing, he still doesnt have all of his color back completely but he is maintaining. just keep them up with the finest of foods including vitamin supplements, and garlic. this will aid in keeping him healthy throughout the process.

 

[92protruck]

carshark, my only concern is with your use of the word "facts." I don't know how you can say they are fact vs. opinion. There is wide disagreement among experts. I have read countless articles and done hours of research. One of the most cited experts on this forum (although I do not consider any of them experts as I define the term) says he believes that there are some strains of ich resistant to hypo. If he is an expert and this is his opinion how can you say as fact hypo kills invert ...ich is invert...hypo kills ich? You mean kills most ich, some ich or all ich? There are anectodal cases of ich surviving hypo at 14 ppt. indefinitley. Secondly, there is huge debate btwn experts as to whether or not ich can survive in a dormant stage and attach to a stressed fish. Tons of people have reported that they have experianced ich when changing tanks, high temp (broken heater), lights stayed on all night etc. In these cases, there was no new addition of a fish which as the experts say is the only way you can get ich. Are these people just lying for the heck of it? In my case, I did not add any new fish or anything else to my tank for over 4 months. My fish clearly came down with ich. Many experts on this board would say that is absolutely impossible that ich could survive in my tank for 4 months in a dormant state and that its life cycle is only 14 days. I.E., it must have been introduced into my tank within 14 days of my fish getting ich. Tons of people report a fish with ich, treat it with good food, vitamins and garlic and it goes away on its own never to infect any other fish in the tank. The experts here say...impossible. Garlic can't kill a parasite and it will cycle in your tank for up to one year eventually infecting the rest of your fish so you must treat all the fish. Simply not true. I have seen tanks with 29 fish and only one with ich and watched it heal itself with no other ich outbreak going on 2 years. I think these boards are a great source of information and I think everyone should read everything and make the choice they are most comfortable with. I try to answer everything with IMO and this is what I beleive based on what I have read. If you were challanged on your "facts" I doubt you could prove them out and you would more than likely refer to something you read. Maybe posted by an expert...maybe an experianced hobbyist...maybe somebody that knows less than we do. Not taking anything out on you personally, I am just sooooo tired of seeing so many posts stating "facts" about ich. The most highly debated topic in marine fishkeeping. If the facts were actually facts and everyone agreed then there would be little debate.
Just my 5 cents worth.

 

[nofish]

carshark can you please email me namless2 at bellsouth . net thank you

 

[carshark]

couple of things about your post here. where i respect and understand exactly where you are coming from, these are facts, whether facts are published by someone else doing a study or based on what I see with my own two eyes. If I take a fish with ick, and being placed into hyposaline conditions, the ick slowly disappears. now this right there tells me one thing. Ick does not show up during this period. whether its "dormant" or killed it is not visible to the

[hr]
eye. Ick is an invertebrate, that is a fact. invertebrates can not survive those conditions. fact? ick is a parasite. fact?
A parasite is an organism that lives in or on the living tissue of a host organism at the expense of that host. The biological interaction between the host and the parasite is called parasitism. Parasitism is a type of symbiosis, by one definition, although another definition of symbiosis excludes parasitism, since it requires that the host benefit from the interaction as well as the parasite. A parasite by definition can not survive without a host.
so saying that a parasite can live dormant in a sandbed or filter media is to me not logical. the only way i could see ick being dormant would be strictly in a fish's tissue not reproducing, however that goes against any study made stating a 28 day life cycle of the parasite. so maybe there is some sort mutation that has taken place in Ick world. its possible, i mean most diseases if not treated properly, can build an immunity to certain medications, so that goes right back to original treatment, if done properly it should not be able to withstand the treatment. another thing to mention you were not in hypo for 6 weeks, you were there for 2, that is not proper medication, that only maybe kills a portion but not all, so your opinion(hypo does not kill ick all the way) from that standpoint cant be valid. so you mention that it is not actual fact, and if i were to be put on the spot to prove all of my "facts" that i would just refer to someones theory or publication. where do you get your info? im sorry to say what i see, and testimonials of people who have done certain treatments enables me to derive my own personal opinion based on fact.

 

[beth]

If hyposalinity is done appropriately, with an accurate salinity tool, then there should be problem in regards to any ich left on rocks.

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by NOFISH
carshark can you please email me namless2 at bellsouth . net thank you

is it nameless? or namless? ill send both see what happens...

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by diane4
My dogface puffer is doing extreemly well, has been ich free and eating well. I love him dearly and I thank the folks on this site for their help..and being there.
Hypo works, when followed exactly as perscribed.
Thats my two cents worth.

Thanks for the update! Glad to hear the puff is doing better!

 

[beth]

I will publish the professional source later on....which is the source that all professional reference.

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by carshark
it is not a stress free scenario.
The stress is caused by the illness itself, not the hyposalinity [if done appropriately]. Or the hobbyists not doing the procedure correctly.