Beth-hypo question

beth

Administrator
Staff member
The arguments that hypo is a "theory" or an opinion because there are reported instances that it does not work, or has not been effective, is not valid. If an antibiotic does not work does that mean that using antibiotics to cure a bacterial infection is only a theoretical treatment? No, antibiotics work to kill bacteria, just as hyposalinity kills ich. Are there strains of ich that may be "resistant" to the treatment? Yes, just as strains of bacteria can be resistant to antibiotics. BTW: Ich can also develop resistance to copper, if fish are continuously exposed to copper. That is why it is so very important to eliminate ich from the get-go by QTing all new fish FIRST.
 

carshark

Active Member
Originally Posted by Beth
The stress is caused by the illness itself, not the hyposalinity [if done appropriately]. Or the hobbyists not doing the procedure correctly.

I was referring to the amount of fish in that small quarters...
 

flamehawk

Active Member
Beth- This post has really taken on a life of it's own. Please refer to my first post and give me some guidance please. Also .....other posts which refer to problem w/ Flame angel. Thanks.
 

92protruck

Member
Carshark, I am not using my hypo condition as an example of anything. Clearly, I have only been in hypo 3 weeks. In my other thread I was just posting the status that I still had ich after 3 weeks (I thought it was newsworthy and a bit unusual). I agree 6 weeks on hypo. I'll give you partial credit on your definition of parasite. The definition itself does not say that a parasite requires a host. In fact there are many examples of parasites that can live without a host. I think someone used the dog and flea example recently. But under your theory which you have derived from this and other websites and believe so strongly in, ich is a specific type of parasite that does require a host to survive so I understand where your coming from but again that is the danger of stating "facts" and can confuse others. Everything I have ever read by a published expert says the life cycle is 14 days. Again, you have adopted the 28 days like many others on here. Again, partial credit as I know you meant that to rid your tank of ich you should go 2 life cycles to be sure. But again, mis-information. Which is the only real point here. A lot of people get what they think are facts or numbers and repeat them ad nauseum out of context which leads to a bunch of confused folks. I also believe (although never researched it) some inverts can surive in hypo conditions. Certainly freshwater species can. I think my nass snail in hypo is still alive although I don't expect him to survive the whole 6 weeks. It is difficult to recite "facts" with 100% accuracy but so many do it...I just hate to see it.What can you tell me about how I got ich in my tank? No fish, rocks, or corals in 4 months prior to ich outbreak. How did it get there? How long was it there? I do want to try an avoid another outbreak and help on this is much appreciated.
 

carshark

Active Member
Originally Posted by 92ProTruck
Carshark, I am not using my hypo condition as an example of anything. Clearly, I have only been in hypo 3 weeks. In my other thread I was just posting the status that I still had ich after 3 weeks (I thought it was newsworthy and a bit unusual). I agree 6 weeks on hypo. I'll give you partial credit on your definition of parasite. The definition itself does not say that a parasite requires a host. In fact there are many examples of parasites that can live without a host. I think someone used the dog and flea example recently. But under your theory which you have derived from this and other websites and believe so strongly in, ich is a specific type of parasite that does require a host to survive so I understand where your coming from but again that is the danger of stating "facts" and can confuse others. Everything I have ever read by a published expert says the life cycle is 14 days. Again, you have adopted the 28 days like many others on here. Again, partial credit as I know you meant that to rid your tank of ich you should go 2 life cycles to be sure. But again, mis-information. Which is the only real point here. A lot of people get what they think are facts or numbers and repeat them ad nauseum out of context which leads to a bunch of confused folks. I also believe (although never researched it) some inverts can surive in hypo conditions. Certainly freshwater species can. I think my nass snail in hypo is still alive although I don't expect him to survive the whole 6 weeks. It is difficult to recite "facts" with 100% accuracy but so many do it...I just hate to see it.What can you tell me about how I got ich in my tank? No fish, rocks, or corals in 4 months prior to ich outbreak. How did it get there? How long was it there? I do want to try an avoid another outbreak and help on this is much appreciated.

as in many of the readings i have seen and the countless hours i have spent on reading about this parasite
.. i have based an OPINION in that it could be on your fish, and even reproducing without you seeing it. ie in the gills, inner tissue where it is not exposed and dropping off during the night to enter the reproductive stage which can not be seen with the

[hr]
eye, because actually all you can see is cysts not the actual parasite. so with healthy fish, the ick could be kept to a minimum without visible evidence because the fish is able to fight it off essentially and not start forming cysts on the outer tissue to protect itself when the inner tissue is overpopulated with the parasite. so if you did a water change, moved around rock, did something to really stress your fish out, its immune system held off the serious side effects of ich. the purpose of hyposalinity is to effectively kill the parasite completely not just stop forming cysts and reproducing.
I will be sure from now when i state "facts" that they cover every aspect of the entire world just not what that actually pertains to the use in the hobby..
 

92protruck

Member
I tend to agree with that theory but it is rejected by most. Why do all the mod's say "the only way to prevent ich is QT for 3 weeks"? How would that prevent ich in my case and your theory above. Most also say that ich will continue to reproduce at exponential rates until all fish are affected. Somebody said each cycts makes 200 more free swimming little guys. How can all that happen without any fish showing any signs and all a nite when I can't see anything? After 4 months the tank would have to be full of ich?
*note. I'm not saying hypo doesn't work (Beth). I am sure it works. I am only saying that I disagree with the implication that hypo is 100% safe and effective treatment for ich. Which is what I got out of reading this website. Only pointing out that it can be problematic, you can lose fish, it is not 100% as some strains are resistant, and there are problems which can arise which I don't beleive are adequately addressed in the postings. Just an opinion.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Originally Posted by flamehawk
The thread on this site suggest leaving fish in hypo for 3 weeks after all signs are gone and then raising salinity back slowly over 1 week. I have read that the ich actually does not die but rather lies dormant on the bottom of the Q tank and can actually come back after the water gets back to salinity norm. Is this accurate?
Where did you read that?? No, the hyposalinity should take care of all ich exposed to it...as long as the hobbyist performs the procedures correctly.
Originally Posted by flamehawk

If so, why would we suggest this method? wouldn't the alternative be to move fish to another clean tank or vacuum bottom of Q tank as thoroughly as possible? Thanks.
No, the ich will dieoff once exposed to hyposaline conditions.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Originally Posted by flamehawk
Beth- This post has really taken on a life of it's own. Please refer to my first post and give me some guidance please. Also .....other posts which refer to problem w/ Flame angel. Thanks.
Are you telling me to get back to work instead of having a fun debate with these guys??
 

flamehawk

Active Member
Flame angel passed. I've never had any succes treating flame angels for ich w/ hypo or copper. I'm done w/ FA's. Oh also...other fish also breathing fast and again all readings are fine....it's got to be the hypo.
 
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