big BIG problem!

matjack

Member
Well. I have a 12 gallon nano cube that I bought about a year ago to make a nice, small reef setup. I invested in some fairly good rock...marshal isl, tonga, fiji, etc, a nice clean up crew and whatnot. After it cycled and I tested the water, I slowly added more snails, crabs, cleaner shrimp, soft corals and the such. Well, not too long after, my tank became INFESTED with fireworms. Mind you, they were the VERY BAD kind, not the good ones. They managed to kill EVERY SINGLE thing in my tank...including all snails, crabs, cleaner shrimp, corals, i mean EVERYTHING. Every night, I go in with a turkey baster and try and suck as many out as i can. I usually get about 5 or so, seeing as they retract into their rocks VERY quickly. I have seen TONS and tons everywhere in the middle of the night. I know Dragon Wrasses and Longnose Hawkfish will eat them, but worried about the tank size. Is there any other, more effective way, to remove these annoying killers that have ruined my entire tank? Any advice would be appreciated. It was so sad having everything killed like that.
 

mscarpena

Member
Place all of your rock in a very high concentrated salt water to kill them. It will kill everything in the rock, but you will get rid of the fire worms. Seems weird that you have that many. Also by high I mean off the chart like 1.040. Hopefully you will not kill off the coraline algae and colors of your rock. Good luck.
 

matjack

Member
I think I will definately try that. I've heard of makeshift traps and whatnot to catch them, but it seems nearly impossible with the amount i have in my tank. Thanks for the advice!!!
 

trippkid

Active Member
I've done the hypersalt mix soaking and it works good. I also had a Coral Banded Shrimp that loved to eat them, I don't know if they all have taste for them, but mine did. Not much help, just my 2 cents, I guess.
Matt
 

ophiura

Active Member
OK, don't hate me...but I think the fireworms are jumping to conclusions. It is a chicken and egg scenario, IMO. What were your parameters?
"Bad" bristleworms are pretty rare all considering. A tank "infested" with bad one's...I just wonder. They WILL eat dead and dying corals, without a doubt. So, as I said...chicken or the egg. Where things dying for other reasons and the worms eating them, or were the worms killing them?
Just saying you may want to really assess the setup before assuming the worms were the cause, as truly it is not common to have really major infestations of problem species.
 

reefer545

Member
Are you sure THEY are the culprits behind the demise of your cleanup crew? It is unusual for bristleworms to KILL your livestock, but eat the dead adn almost dead ones -- well, thats what they do, and they do it well. You may never even see a spike in your ammonia, they are that efficient. I would look into other possibilities before I killed all the bacterial populous of my rocks, which is what will keep your tank from cycling again, and then having to replenish itself before you can add fish or inverts again. Just my opinion.
 

trippkid

Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
OK, don't hate me...but I think the fireworms are jumping to conclusions. It is a chicken and egg scenario, IMO. What were your parameters?
"Bad" bristleworms are pretty rare all considering. A tank "infested" with bad one's...I just wonder. They WILL eat dead and dying corals, without a doubt. So, as I said...chicken or the egg. Where things dying for other reasons and the worms eating them, or were the worms killing them?
Just saying you may want to really assess the setup before assuming the worms were the cause, as truly it is not common to have really major infestations of problem species.
I agree with this and what reefer545 said. Also, to rid the tank of all of them, is virtually impossible, they live in the sand too. I have only "soaked" rock when starting a new system, not after starting one. It wouldn't make a difference anyhow they can come as hitchikers on new corals and you have them again. I've never had any issues with them, and I've even had one approximately 18" to 2' in a tank that was running a long time ago, it was very long and scary, but never bothered anything, just ate uneaten food. If they multiplied that quickly, I would have to say there must have been a reason for that(death,overfeeding, some sort of excess food amounts for them to chow down on). I may be completely wrong here, it is just my opinion.
Matt
 

matjack

Member
Well, I know that they usually eat dead and dying matter in the tank, but the reason why I say they KILLED everything is because I am pretty positive of it. My corals had nearly doubled in size, had bright colors, were doing very well, and one day I came home, and it had been pulled halfway off the rock and the fireworms were just munching on it. They were all around it. LIke i said, the day before, that particular coral was doing EXTREMELY well. Also, I will find my crabs to be fine one day, and then the next, I see their legs ripped off floating on the bottom of the tank (again from the fireworms). I, too, have never heard of such an infestation of the "bad" kind. When my cleaning shrimp was killed, There was no evidence of him whatsoever...completely gone. Is soaking all the rock going to be the only conclusion to this nasty problem?
Matt and Megan
 

big

Active Member
Sorry about your issue with the fire-worms. Being that feeding too much can cause an outbreak of the little critters... Now that everything else is gone, would no feeding of any kind eventually starve the little critters to death.. Maybe they would eat each other to survive on till there where only one huge one left......... Just A thought.. Good Luck.....
 
R

reefernana

Guest
I have quite a few bristleworms and a pretty good size CUC with 8 corals and they've never even come close to bothering them. It almost sounds more like you may have a mantis shrimp. And since you did have so many hitchhikers it could be more than likely. Have you heard any clicking noises from your tank, especially at night? I would really look closely at your rocks at night with lights out using a flashlight and see if you have a big pair of eyes staring out at you from within. They are notorius for killing all that you mentioned and they are quite hard to catch. I had one and luckily it was during my tank cycling that I saw it and I pulled that rock out and did a freshwater dip to get rid of it. Naturally, doing this kills most everything else on the rock, too, but it didn't kill the barnacles or stop that rock from producing more bristleworms and pods. I just soaked it in saltwater after for a while and that rock now has more coraline on it than any of my othersl. I didn't care to keep the thing for even selling it. Just a thought anyways.
 

trippkid

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefernana
I have quite a few bristleworms and a pretty good size CUC with 8 corals and they've never even come close to bothering them. It almost sounds more like you may have a mantis shrimp. And since you did have so many hitchhikers it could be more than likely. Have you heard any clicking noises from your tank, especially at night? I would really look closely at your rocks at night with lights out using a flashlight and see if you have a big pair of eyes staring out at you from within. They are notorius for killing all that you mentioned and they are quite hard to catch. I had one and luckily it was during my tank cycling that I saw it and I pulled that rock out and did a freshwater dip to get rid of it. Naturally, doing this kills most everything else on the rock, too, but it didn't kill the barnacles or stop that rock from producing more bristleworms and pods. I just soaked it in saltwater after for a while and that rock now has more coraline on it than any of my othersl. I didn't care to keep the thing for even selling it. Just a thought anyways.
That was my next thought, could be a rouge crab of some sort also. I would do careful night inspection with the lights off(all of them). Good luck, I guess even with soaking there is no 100% guarantee it will rid them of every last one.??? Sorry for the demise, but good luck in the future.

Matt
 

ninjamini

Active Member
My first thought is that they were acclimated poorly by you or your lfs.
#2 is that your salinity is too low. Is it 1.023? It should be 1.025-6
#3 Is there may be a predator. Mantis, crab. Looks like you are in for a really late night. Get a flashlight and put some red cellophane over it. You want a red light.
#4 Next firework you pull out take a pic for us. Lets find out if he is the nasty one.
#5 are you sure that your ammonia and nitrites are 0? Test kit? LFS test?
Put in a shrimp right b4 bed and turn out the lights. See who comes to the party. IS it just worms?
Also if you want to get worms or anything else out take the rocks and dip them in fresh RO water. Anything that is in there will scurry out...good or bad.
 

mscarpena

Member
The high concentrated saltwater will flush out anything bad. I mean anything. A quick fresh water dip and they may just hide. I thin you would need to soak it. Also if you leave the sand or sponges that have good bacteria colonized on it your tank will cycle again. Also there arebacteria addatives that you can put in you tank to cycle it. I don't normally reccomend the bacteria addatives, but what else is there to do. Again good luck and if you are sure it's the bristle soak them to death.
 
R

reefernana

Guest
Originally Posted by mscarpena
The high concentrated saltwater will flush out anything bad. I mean anything. A quick fresh water dip and they may just hide. I thin you would need to soak it. Also if you leave the sand or sponges that have good bacteria colonized on it your tank will cycle again. Also there arebacteria addatives that you can put in you tank to cycle it. I don't normally reccomend the bacteria addatives, but what else is there to do. Again good luck and if you are sure it's the bristle soak them to death.
I dipped mine in fresh RO water for 12-15 seconds and they definitely didn't hide, they all came scurrying out in a hurry. This is the fastest way to get rid of them if you know for sure they're in a particular rock. Soaking them in high salinity saltwater can take a while. I put the rock back into saltwater at 1.026 right after I ridded it of the mantis and let it soak for several hours before putting it back into my tank. It did not set my tank into another cycle and when I tested the water a couple of days later, I had the same readings as I had before, which were great. Like I said though, this was toward the beginning of my tank setup.
 

exlfs

New Member
It is relatively uncommon for bristle worms to attack living creatures, as others have said.
Possible Causes of Deceased Animals:
1. Temperature spikes during day and you are not noticing.
2. Specific Gravity is off. Be sure to calibrate your hydrometer. If you are usning a floating one, are you doing the calculation to take temperature into account, and if you are using the dip and read ones, have you recently cleaned it (they can become VERY inaccurate within a few months with salt and calcium build-up that's almost un-noticeable).
3. Mantis shrimp or gorilla crab...though neither of these would bother your corals (again, this suggests temp spike or S.G).
Solutions for Bristle Worms:
1. They thrive on too much food. Period. Cut them off for a while. Feed the tank NOTHING. And I mean NOTHING for a while.
2. Once the they are starving (won't take too long...couple days), take a small necked bottle and place a piece of shrimp or other meat in the bottle. Put a 'wad' of fishing line in the bottle all the way up to the neck of the bottle, and place this on the bottom of the tank.
3. Wake up in the morning and you will have TONS of bristle worms in the bottle feasting. The fishing line prevents a quick exit and makes them feel like they are already hiding. Just take out the bottle and dump the worms.
4. Re-load trap and go at it over and over until the bottle stops filling up every night. Chances are your rock AND sand are full of them, and this could take a while.
Fresh water and salt water dips can be helpful for some, useless for others. I've had folks dip the rock until almost everything on the rock was dead (hours, not minutes), and the worms have lived (as have gorilla crabs and mantis shrimps) on occasions. The reasons are simple.....it takes a LONG time for the fresh or hyper-salted water to penetrate "into" the rock. Want a good example....take a kitchen sponse soaked in colored water, and submerge it into a tub of clean water. Very little of the colored water will displace itself from the sponge unless you squeeze it, agitate it, etc. And it's a lot harder to squeeze the water out of the crevaces of a rock. HA! So, if the critters are deep in the rock, they are awfully darn safe for quite some time.
Try the bottle trick for a while, get your camera out, and take some pictures of how infested your tank really is. Oh....by the way....you'll catch the most worms BEFORE the sun comes up! Super-early morning is best.
Best of luck, and God bless.....
 

matjack

Member
Well, I did take the suggestion of cutting off feeding the tank ANYTHING. I still manage to find them in the sand and on the rocks when the lights are out. Tonight, I am going to take the suggestion with the bottle and shrimp and see how many I can catch...after a while, if that doesn't work, i will have to do a soak. I'll see if I can take a picture of the ones caught!
Wish me luck!
 
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