bioballs Can't find the answer to this one HELP

[saltfreak4]

Ok, I have a refugium that I am setting up. I got an old tank that had baffles in it already.
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Ok I know this is a poor depiction, but I was wondering if I should place bio balls in first section farthest to the right. this means that the bioballs would be completely covered, so here is the reason for the post.
With a wet/dry filter the bioballs are dry with water trickling over the top of them and collecting at the bottom. This setup that I have the balls would be completely covered with water. So.....this would be a anerobic bacteria, which is different from the bacteria in the bioballs in a "dry" system, which would have aerobic bacteria. Which is better??? I will also have rubble in the fuge part of the tank, in the middle. Basically do you think I should place bioballs in this right side or rubble???
Thank
Rena

 

[saltfreak4]

Thats more than a bad depiction it isn't one at all. I will try to draw something and post it. Don't have a camera at the moment, it's broke.

 

[my way]

Aerobic bacteria grows in the presence of oxygen. Anerobic bacteria grows in the lack of oxygen. Even though your bio balls will be under the water, there will still be plenty of oxygen available so only the Aerobic bacteria will grow.

 

[sign guy]

is it the same sump you bilut last night?

 

[xdave]

Submerged bioballs won't do much other than slow the flow. There won't be anerobic bacteria because evn though they"re submerged there will be disolved oxygen in the water. You'll only get anerobic bacteria under 3"-5" of tightly packed fine sand.

 

[saltfreak4]

so are you saying that they are just as efficent above or below the water line? And should I add them?

 

[sign guy]

if you add them make shyre to clean them reguly so they dont become trait factories

 

[hatessushi]

When I did my bioballs (before I switched to LR rubble) I had half of them under water and half above. I just made sure the wet/dry part of my filtration was only half full of water.

 

[dogstar]

I think its best to have them totally submerged. Still will have aerobic bacteria on them and thats a good thing ...also this allows other organisums to be able to live in them that will feed on and break down the traped detrius and crap that most people complain causeing nitrates....I see pods and worms and starfish in mine all over them.

 

[xdave]

IMHO Bioballs are specifically designed to be out of water. Water drips down them in a way that it's exposed to the most oxygen possible. Under water they have the lowest surface area of any biomedia and do little more than obstruct the flow. Never ever wash them, as with any biomedia, they should only be vigorously rinsed off with tank water and thats it.

 

[saltfreak4]

Yes, I know about the washing (rinsing) I know that is what they mean when they say it. So, are you saying I should just put rubble in instead of the bioballs, xDave? I am asking because surface area underwater and above is the same. I am confused again.
xDave is saying don't use them, use rubble, more surface area than bioballs underwater, which--and don't take this in the wrong way--makes no sense to me.
The guy right before dave says they work better underwater, well at least that's what I got out of it. Or....will they work the same above and below. Let me explain something that I *think* I understand. Oxygen that is disolved in water is different than that of oxygen in the air. So, I would think that the bioballs would work differently under and above the waterline. Now, the question is....--assuming I have the above correctly understood--which is better for a tank with corals and fish?
there hope that was clear, because the answers...not so much

 

[my way]

Bio balls are not only shaped the way they are for surface area but to also aggitate the water as it trickles over and through them for maximum oxygen exchange.
The reason there is more area on rubble is because it is porous, there are thousands of tiny holes in the rubble which creates a massive amount of surface area. The problem with using something like rubble for Aerobic Bacteria is the tiny holes eventually get clogged and you lose the water flow over and through it. Bio balls are desinged not to have this problem, you do have to rinse them once and a while to slough off the slime that will accumulate on them.
Therefore they work better out of the water for oxygen exchange. As far as just using them for a media to colonize bacteria, I think above or below the water is about the same. as stated above by XDave, if you are using them for a bacteria media, they have about the least amount of surface area, but are hard to clog compare to other types of media.

 

[saltfreak4]

OK, I understand they have a lower surface area to volume ratio compared to rubble, but I didn't think about the clogged holes.
So....I am getting from your post that for growing bacteria, under water(such as my application) you recommend the rubble rock because a) it doesn't clogg in this situation and b) it has better surface area for growing the bacteria?
Could you tell me how often the rock needs to be cleaned, because--the way I understand it--anything (including rock, if too dirty) can become a detrious nitrate producing entity. I have read that you scrub the rock. Is this true? Like with a toothbrush? How often? and how much at a time?
I have seen this answered for the bb but not for the rubble rock.
Thanks everyone I am seeing the light.

 

[gatorwpb]

If youre making this a fuge, you dont need bio balls at all.
I know some designs include them, but most of the fuges people on these boards have (including myself) dont have bio balls. I have rubble rock, 3" fine sand bed, macroalgae, 26w PC light and a few hermits and snails.
You dont even need the rubble in a fuge, but many people do use rubble or regular LR in some fashion. The macroalgae replaces the bioballs for nutrient removal.