Blue is sick - tail looks bloody

calypsois

calypsois

Member

Blue's tail has a "bloody" appearance today. A little something going on on his forehead as well. Mostly concerned about tail. Sorry, he seems to be turning, so not best view of tail. Blue's been staying in his "cave" a lot today. Yellow tang had same thing yesterday - noticed it the night before. Poor Jimmy is no longer with us. Got to save Blue - please help. Changed some water last night.
Been having problem with green slime? It is visible on rocks by Blue's face. I think aquarium is a 55 long with lots of rocks, so it will be hard to catch him. I'll figure it out if need be.

2nd photo is Blue as viewed from the far end of his 55 long - all the way through the length of the aquarium.
 
calypsois

calypsois

Member
Beth:
Thanks; what do you call this bloody tail kind of disease? Have an appt this AM, so limited time. Blue's moving around in his "cave" where he sleeps. Really hope not to lose him - had him for soooooooooo long.
- Salinity (which also translates to sg per measuring device): 1,025
- Specific Gravity (from device above): 33.8
- Temperature: 81
I'll have to get a pH kit and dissolved O2 kit
I'm sure the nitrates (and therefore amonia, nitrites) are off with all the green crud growing. Nitrates were bad the other day. By the way-what is the best way to remove it from: the aquarium walls, rocks? Will check after getting home from appt.
Will also check grounding situation
Blue's 55-long tank is fed:
- New Life Spectrum Large Fish Formula
- New Life Spectrum Optimum Salt H2O Flakes
- Omega One Marine Pellets with Garlic
- Omega One Super Veggie Kelp Flakes
I have hung the veggie sheets from a clip for Blue in the past. He never wanted them. I can try again.
Thanks so much, Pat
 
calypsois

calypsois

Member
Blue came out to see me this AM and again for a bit of breakfast briefly . . . resting again in cave. Besides being sick, he's probably lonesome for Jimmy, his little buddy Yellow Tang who just died from this disease.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I'd like to see all of your readings, and tell us the size of tank, type filters, skimmer? The tail problem is a bacterial infection. The only way to treat that is in a hospital tank using antibiotics. You don't have a hospital tank, right?
 
calypsois

calypsois

Member
Hello Beth:
How big would a hospital tank have to be? Blue is 8" long at most - I think shorter. He is looking somewhat better this AM. He swam around and ate more than yesterday. He seems to be hanging out by my powerhead and also by a little filter where water flows in. My cleaner wrasse seems to be grooming him a lot..
- Tank size: 55 long
- Salinity (which also translates to sg per measuring device): 1,025
- Specific Gravity (from device above): 33.8
- Temperature: 81-82 - Nitrates: 20 NOT GOOD, of course . . . will be doing some water change
- Filter: Magnum 350 cannister by Marineland
- Additional small fillter: Aquaclear70 powerhead with filter attached
- Protein skimmer not attached: Aquarium Systems SeaClone 100
I have a protein skimmer placement issue with the lid I purchased for this aquarium. Guess I'll just stick it on it front for now, just to get it running.
I'll get more numbers in a while. What all figures would you like?
What antibiotic should I use?
Looking into equipment to check pH and dissolved O2. Suggestions?
Thanks so much, Pat
 
S

saxman

Guest
Turn your temperature down! Get it down to <75*F to slow the growth rate of the bacteria. 68*F is best, but I don't think the tang can handle it that low. Be sure to drop the temp slowly so as to not stress the fish. Once you get the fish into the HT, keep the temp in the low 70's.
Right now, the current antibiotic of choice is Furan 2.
Oh, and FWIW, you have SG and salinity reversed. Your SG is 1.025, and your salinity is 33.8 ppt.
 
calypsois

calypsois

Member
Have more stats:
- General Hardness: 18
- Carbonate Hardness: 180 or 240?
- pH: 7
- NO2: .5
- NO3: 160
Hubby bought some all-in-1 test strips for the above figures
Saxman:
Thanks, I'll start dropping the temp now. How long would you take to get to 75?
As to the antibiotic; is it a dip? Unsure on hospital tank as of this moment with Blue being so big. How big should it be? He's 8" at most.
Thanks, Pat
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Right off, I can tell you that any tang is not going to fare well in a 55 gal tank, let alone an 8" tang. If this fish makes it, you should think about a new home for him.
Did you mean to say that your pH is 7?? If so, that is too low, way too low. Slowly bring it back up to 8. I can't imagine how salt water could have such a low pH. Make sure that you are getting accurate readings, perhaps take a water sample to the LFS to test.
The medication I perter to use is Maracyn Two for saltwater fish. You would need probably a 30 gal tank for a fish that larger, but you can rig a tank use a rectangle shaped Rubbermaid that you can get from Lowes or home depot.
The biggest problem is that a hospital tank that is going to undergo antibiotics treatment, should be fully cycled. An uncycled tank dosed with antibiotics will totally degrade water quality very fast. To set up a make-shift hospital, you would have to plan on daily water changes. Even then, there would be no guarantees
What and how often are you feeding this fish?
Since he is still eating, maybe we can try to address the issues with your tank which may improve the situation .
 
calypsois

calypsois

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/394499/blue-is-sick-tail-looks-bloody#post_3511508
Right off, I can tell you that any tang is not going to fare well in a 55 gal tank, let alone an 8" tang. If this fish makes it, you should think about a new home for him.
Did you mean to say that your pH is 7?? If so, that is too low, way too low. Slowly bring it back up to 8. I can't imagine how salt water could have such a low pH. Make sure that you are getting accurate readings, perhaps take a water sample to the LFS to test.
The medication I perter to use is Maracyn Two for saltwater fish. You would need probably a 30 gal tank for a fish that larger, but you can rig a tank use a rectangle shaped Rubbermaid that you can get from Lowes or home depot.
The biggest problem is that a hospital tank that is going to undergo antibiotics treatment, should be fully cycled. An uncycled tank dosed with antibiotics will totally degrade water quality very fast. To set up a make-shift hospital, you would have to plan on daily water changes. Even then, there would be no guarantees
What and how often are you feeding this fish?
*** Feeding 2 x daily:
- New Life Spectrum Large Fish Formula
- New Life Spectrum Optimum Salt H2O Flakes
- Omega One Marine Pellets with Garlic
- Omega One Super Veggie Kelp Flakes
I have hung the veggie sheets from a clip for Blue in the past. He never wanted them. I can try again.
Since he is still eating, maybe we can try to address the issues with your tank which may improve the situation .
*** Yes, Blue is eating and out of his "cave". He is looking a whole lot better. Tried to get lt. and rt. side pics, but he is hanging out where water gets sucked into the powerhead or the small filter (an extra filter), so, sorry, pics are not great. Marks on his belly are not on Blue - photo anomaly and reflections, too. Notice the bloody look to the base of his tail seems to be going away . . . yeay!
Going out for more salt, the antibiotic, veggie sheets, and hope to get pH tested. And I need to get working on a bigger tank solution.



 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I'm going to suggest that you do 2 gal water changes daily with saltwater that has been mixed using a pump (not an air pump) for at least 24 hours. I would also add some quality frozen foods to the diet, rather then just the dried food. How often are you feedings? You should feed at least 2x day just enough food so that your fish can eat all of what is offered. If he will not eat the algae you are providing, try changing to another variety.
Do you have live rock and live sand in your tank? What media/filter pads are your canister filter and how often do you clean that filter?
For the HLLE, start using either selcon or zoecon supplements with the food.
 
calypsois

calypsois

Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/394499/blue-is-sick-tail-looks-bloody#post_3511535
I'm going to suggest that you do 2 gal water changes daily with saltwater that has been mixed using a pump (not an air pump) for at least 24 hours. I would also add some quality frozen foods to the diet, rather then just the dried food. How often are you feedings? You should feed at least 2x day just enough food so that your fish can eat all of what is offered. If he will not eat the algae you are providing, try changing to another variety.
Do you have live rock and live sand in your tank? What media/filter pads are your canister filter and how often do you clean that filter?
For the HLLE, start using either selcon or zoecon supplements with the food.
OK, so if I understand correctly for the Hospital Tank:
- Mix saltwater in 30-gal long. (I might have to use a 20-gal long)
- Mix with a real pump for at least 24 hrs
- Then move Blue into new accommodation
- Do 2-gal changes daily after Blue moves in - those 2-gal changes need to be mixed with a real pump for at least 24 hrs
This tank should be empty except for something for Blue to hide in, right? Blue is going to be sooooo very upset with this move - the whole process. Any hints on making it easier on him? He will be mad and hide and sulk for some time after.
Blue's current home:
- 55-gal long
- Live rock (30#?) and live sand to cover bottom
- Filter cartridge with 1/2 carbon and 1/2 phosphate removal media and a membrane pad around to filter debris. It is cleaned every other month . . . not good, I know!
- I feed 2 x daily - I do feed frozen brine shrimp, blood worms or Micis (sp?) maybe 1 x week or so.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
My recommendation right now is to allow the fish to recoup in the display tank, since you said he is seems better, and he is still eating. I made some recommendations regarding food, supplements, and water changes, and I would suggest to follow that.
If you wish to go ahead and set up the QT, that is fine too, in the event that this fish must be treated.
Quote:
- New Life Spectrum Large Fish Formula
- New Life Spectrum Optimum Salt H2O Flakes
- Omega One Marine Pellets with Garlic
- Omega One Super Veggie Kelp Flakes
I feed 2 x daily - I do feed frozen brine shrimp, blood worms or Micis (sp?) maybe 1 x week or so.
Brine shrimp is not really a good source of nutrition. I would suggest checking your LFS for some quality frozen foods, or maybe start making your own fish food. Use the supplement I suggested above.
Lets see how this goes over the next day or 2.
 
calypsois

calypsois

Member
Thanks, Beth and Saxman:
Hubby put thermostat down after pulling the plug the other day - no change. Will try again to get that temp going down.
Got Omega Veggie Sheets. It's funny - I think Blue is scared of the clip with the Veggie Sheet in it. Haven't seen him going after it on the clip, but he eats what is accidentally torn from it - ravenously!
Feeding some frozen Bloodworms and Mysis; I'll be getting some more today.
pH is "perfect for saltwater" per test at pet shop.
Haven't found the zoecon or selcon supplements yet, but I'm sure to find them today.
Got protien skimmer running yesterday.
Been doing the 2 gal water changes daily with saltwater that has been mixed using a pump (not an air pump) for at least 24 hours. Actually, the first day, I did a 5-gal change. Will continue daily changes.
Blue is doing rather well - swims around some and eats pretty well, but still has a some disease on his face, it appears. Definite progress - no evidence of disease on his tail at all and he is well on his way back to normal behavior eating and swimming around.



 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Bloodworms is a freshwater fish food and does not have much value for saltwater fish. Try to add a variety saltwater fish food.
The tang should get used to the clip after a few days.
 
ak_reefer

ak_reefer

Member
To add to what Beth stated besides Bloodworms, Mysis, and Brine Shrimp have No nutritional value to marine fish! Mysid shrimp on the other hand are ok to feed to them.
 
calypsois

calypsois

Member
Thanks, AK and Beth and Saxman:
Posted yesterday - dk where post went?
- Temp down to 79 from 82, now. Will continue dropping? Do we think bacterial infection is over since Blue's tail has been back to it's usual yellow? Do we still need to drop to 75?
- Feeding variety of frozen food along with the dry mentioned above. Also soaking in zoe supplement sometimes. I thawed some frozen. After thawed, added a couple drops of zoe and mixed and soaked a while - no water added. Dropped into aquarium. All loved it. Is this a good way to add supplements? Mixed into dry pellets and let soak in 10" day before, and I don't think they really liked it as well.
- Got more testing equipment to use instead of the strips. Water stats yesterday
:
--- pH: 7.8 at 1:30 PM yesterday
---------7.9? at 7 PM yesterday
----------7.9? at 9:45 AM today
--- cal >520 yesterday
--- carbonate (alkalinity): 11/196.9 yesterday
Yikes! Even so, Blue was doing better than ever yesterday swimming everywhere and eating well. One prob I hate to mention: Blue is rubbing on the rocks some. In the past, he also did this from time to time. Lights will be on very soon now.
 
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